Just Say No, Kids

More on the failure of abstinence based sex education in the States – the Village Voice reports:

a study published in the journal Pediatrics found that 20 percent of ninth-graders surveyed had engaged in oral sex and 14 percent had had vaginal intercourse. The study confirmed what Oprah, Dr. Phil, and other major media personalities have called “an oral-sex epidemic” among kids as young as 12. It’s certainly alarming for parents that children are beginning to sexually experiment at a younger age than their generation or mine. Researchers concluded: “That so many adolescents are having oral sex and view it as safe, perceiving little or no risk resulting from engaging in oral sex, stresses the importance of needing more research on oral sex transmissibility rates and increased health education about oral sex.”

What’s more troubling is that this study was released in a year when the federal government will allocate more money than ever?Äîabout $130 million?Äîto “abstinence-only-until-marriage” sex education in schools. There are no comparable funds for other kinds of sex ed curricula. A recent study by Yale and Columbia researchers found that teens who take an abstinence pledge are more likely to engage in sexual activities other than vaginal intercourse; members of this same group were also less likely to use a condom in their first sexual experience and less likely to get tested for STDs. In an earlier study, the same research team found that 88 percent of teens who took the pledge had vaginal intercourse before marriage.

Thus, the unintended consequences of the Bushies’ faith-based reality. It’s symptomatic of a broader problem – symbolic policy making in the name of “values” and sending messages to the “base”, with no real attempt to grapple with actual social trends and the outcomes of faith-based policy:

We continue to do a great disservice to the teenagers in this country when it comes to sex education. The United States has the highest teen pregnancy rate and teen STD rate in the Western world. Teenagers are having sex. Teenagers are licking pussy, sucking cock, munching ass, finger-fucking, dry humping, and buttfucking. George Bush wants them to practice abstinence. Well, abstinence-only education sucks. When we deny that young people are sexual beings, withhold information and resources from them, and narrowly define sex to exclude all possibilities but one, we contribute to a new generation of sexually illiterate adults.

Surely it’s ironic that abstinence-educated teens have ended up with the same definition of sex as Bill Clinton:

According to a 1991 study that was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association last week, a majority of college students have a similar definition of sex to the famous one drafted by the lawyers for Paula Jones — the definition under which President Clinton famously said, No.

Of the 599 students surveyed, 59 percent answered “No” when asked, “Would you say you ‘had sex’ with someone if the most intimate behavior you engaged in” was oral-genital contact, according to researchers with the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction.

In the past year [1999], Clinton’s lawyers have defended him against charges he lied in his deposition in the Jones lawsuit when he denied having sex with Monica Lewinsky — even though they had oral sex.

“It’s not the same as sex,” UI junior Peter Alexander said. “It’s less personal.”

Elsewhere: Tim D has some news on some more horrors caused by the anti-sex ed crowd.


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64 responses to “Just Say No, Kids”

  1. Mary

    I do wonder sometimes if the next step will be to drop the minimum age of marriage to just-barely-pubescent, and to start encouraging young marriages among horny teenagers 🙂

  2. Mary

    I do wonder sometimes if the next step will be to drop the minimum age of marriage to just-barely-pubescent, and to start encouraging young marriages among horny teenagers 🙂

  3. harry

    Hehe – and then see an explosion in the divorce rate about five years later, thus confirming the adage that each generation is more socially degenerate than the last.

  4. harry

    Hehe – and then see an explosion in the divorce rate about five years later, thus confirming the adage that each generation is more socially degenerate than the last.

  5. Homer Paxton

    is that when one becomes divorced from reality?

  6. Homer Paxton

    is that when one becomes divorced from reality?

  7. Nic White

    “Teenagers are licking pussy, sucking cock, munching ass, finger-fucking, dry humping, and buttfucking.”

    This is why this site shows up as nsfw 😛

    Id say that the “Clinton definition” is actually a correct one, IMO. If I was asked, I would have been one of the 59%

  8. Nic White

    “Teenagers are licking pussy, sucking cock, munching ass, finger-fucking, dry humping, and buttfucking.”

    This is why this site shows up as nsfw 😛

    Id say that the “Clinton definition” is actually a correct one, IMO. If I was asked, I would have been one of the 59%

  9. Mark

    I’m not with Clinton on this. And the importance of not being with him is that there are many sexual health issues other than those arising from vaginal intercourse.

  10. Mark

    I’m not with Clinton on this. And the importance of not being with him is that there are many sexual health issues other than those arising from vaginal intercourse.

  11. Nic White

    But its not sex Mark, regardless of the health issues that may well exist.

  12. Nic White

    But its not sex Mark, regardless of the health issues that may well exist.

  13. Mark

    If it’s not sex, Nic, then it doesn’t get included in sex education. QED.

    You’d have to assume by your reasoning that men don’t ever have sex with other men and women with women.

    What’s the basis for your definitional circumscription?

  14. Mark

    If it’s not sex, Nic, then it doesn’t get included in sex education. QED.

    You’d have to assume by your reasoning that men don’t ever have sex with other men and women with women.

    What’s the basis for your definitional circumscription?

  15. Nabakov

    “What?Äôs the basis for your definitional circumscription?”

    Sounds like yer looking for a point there you can cut off.

    Hey, we’re primates. At puberty we turn into sperm and egg factories and then there’s quite a few years of excitement over this basic fact, coupled with certain major hormonal gearchanges. No way you gonna stop red-blooded primates from, um, monkeying around anyway, let alone when their bodies wake up to the prime directive.

    So I reckon the most pragmatic and effective, and personally and socially benefical thing you can do, is round ’em up and give ’em a very practical, no-holds barred, cautionary yet sympathetic course on all the health and plumbing aspects of this amazing new thing they’re gonna charge into anyway. Various moralities, religious beliefs and philosophies can be tacked on after, if possible.

    I think it is everyone’s best interests if coming generations understand why and how all of their bodies’ various functions work, and where babies really come from. We teach ’em how to swim and how to stay out of the sun. It seems logical to teach them about condoms, keeping those tricky bits clean and what really happens when this bit goes there.

    Anyone who objects to this I submit is more hung up about sex than the generations he or she frets about.

  16. Nabakov

    “What?Äôs the basis for your definitional circumscription?”

    Sounds like yer looking for a point there you can cut off.

    Hey, we’re primates. At puberty we turn into sperm and egg factories and then there’s quite a few years of excitement over this basic fact, coupled with certain major hormonal gearchanges. No way you gonna stop red-blooded primates from, um, monkeying around anyway, let alone when their bodies wake up to the prime directive.

    So I reckon the most pragmatic and effective, and personally and socially benefical thing you can do, is round ’em up and give ’em a very practical, no-holds barred, cautionary yet sympathetic course on all the health and plumbing aspects of this amazing new thing they’re gonna charge into anyway. Various moralities, religious beliefs and philosophies can be tacked on after, if possible.

    I think it is everyone’s best interests if coming generations understand why and how all of their bodies’ various functions work, and where babies really come from. We teach ’em how to swim and how to stay out of the sun. It seems logical to teach them about condoms, keeping those tricky bits clean and what really happens when this bit goes there.

    Anyone who objects to this I submit is more hung up about sex than the generations he or she frets about.

  17. Mindy

    I think there’s also an element of ‘don’t think about elephants’ here as well. They are being told not to have sex so of course they are going to be curious about why they shouldn’t. Couple that with basic human urges to procreate, and ignorance about what can happen if you do have unprotected sex and voila!

  18. Mindy

    I think there’s also an element of ‘don’t think about elephants’ here as well. They are being told not to have sex so of course they are going to be curious about why they shouldn’t. Couple that with basic human urges to procreate, and ignorance about what can happen if you do have unprotected sex and voila!

  19. Amanda

    “It?Äôs not the same as sex,” UI junior Peter Alexander said. “It?Äôs less personal.”

    Mebbe I’m just getting old, but to me genital-mouth contact is way more personal than penetration. (Or root.)

  20. Amanda

    “It?Äôs not the same as sex,” UI junior Peter Alexander said. “It?Äôs less personal.”

    Mebbe I’m just getting old, but to me genital-mouth contact is way more personal than penetration. (Or root.)

  21. Mark

    Actually, me too, Amanda.

  22. Mark

    Actually, me too, Amanda.

  23. Amanda

    ignore the (or root) non sequitur, it is left over from a lame joke i decided to scrap.

  24. Amanda

    ignore the (or root) non sequitur, it is left over from a lame joke i decided to scrap.

  25. Nabakov

    Yes, it can be a hard concept to swallow sometimes.

  26. Nabakov

    Yes, it can be a hard concept to swallow sometimes.

  27. liam hogan

    Nic—sometimes your definitions of things shit me to tears. Saying oral/anal sex isn’t “sex” is just tedious lawyerly bullshit, and so would most people say if they walked in on you doing it.
    I’d say that, if you could be fined for doing it on the peak hour train, it counts as ‘sex’, no matter what the actual exchange of fluids is.

  28. liam hogan

    Nic—sometimes your definitions of things shit me to tears. Saying oral/anal sex isn’t “sex” is just tedious lawyerly bullshit, and so would most people say if they walked in on you doing it.
    I’d say that, if you could be fined for doing it on the peak hour train, it counts as ‘sex’, no matter what the actual exchange of fluids is.

  29. Mark

    I think, with due respect to Nic, it’s actually probably a definition common to Christian kids. That’s precisely the problem that all this faith-based abstinence education revolves around – kids are taught that sex is a sin. Sex is defined as vaginal sex. Therefore they do all manner of other stuff without “sinning”. But they don’t get any sex education. So all sorts of health-threatening and unsafe stuff occurs. We couldn’t offend God by talking about how HIV or syphilis or Hepatitis can be transmitted, for goodness’ sake (hint – sexual practices other than vaginal sex can also lead to contracting stds).

    This “definition” of sex is parasitic on the Christian ideology that sex is only or properly oriented to procreation.

  30. Mark

    I think, with due respect to Nic, it’s actually probably a definition common to Christian kids. That’s precisely the problem that all this faith-based abstinence education revolves around – kids are taught that sex is a sin. Sex is defined as vaginal sex. Therefore they do all manner of other stuff without “sinning”. But they don’t get any sex education. So all sorts of health-threatening and unsafe stuff occurs. We couldn’t offend God by talking about how HIV or syphilis or Hepatitis can be transmitted, for goodness’ sake (hint – sexual practices other than vaginal sex can also lead to contracting stds).

    This “definition” of sex is parasitic on the Christian ideology that sex is only or properly oriented to procreation.

  31. liam hogan

    On this point, no due respect to Nic. Sex is sex whatever bits are used. I can just imagine it.
    “It’s OK, mum, I was just having non-sexual fun with Dave on the kitchen table, I’ll clean it up and have it smelling like it was before, before dinner time”.
    “Well that’s good then.”
    Nic, are you serious?

  32. liam hogan

    On this point, no due respect to Nic. Sex is sex whatever bits are used. I can just imagine it.
    “It’s OK, mum, I was just having non-sexual fun with Dave on the kitchen table, I’ll clean it up and have it smelling like it was before, before dinner time”.
    “Well that’s good then.”
    Nic, are you serious?

  33. liam hogan

    [Liam rereads last comment]
    Damn, that came out a lot harsher than I imagined it would. I didn’t mean it would actually be Nic on the kitchen table. Unless he wanted to, of course.

  34. liam hogan

    [Liam rereads last comment]
    Damn, that came out a lot harsher than I imagined it would. I didn’t mean it would actually be Nic on the kitchen table. Unless he wanted to, of course.

  35. Homer Paxton

    I know people who agree with nic and I merely tell very nicely of course they are crazy.

    Sex is more than sexual penetration.
    Mark you are incorrect in your hypthesis.
    It is all to do with keeping the law whilst in fact you are breaking it.
    An act of a good pharisee as Bill clinton will testify oral sex is not banned in the bible!

  36. Homer Paxton

    I know people who agree with nic and I merely tell very nicely of course they are crazy.

    Sex is more than sexual penetration.
    Mark you are incorrect in your hypthesis.
    It is all to do with keeping the law whilst in fact you are breaking it.
    An act of a good pharisee as Bill clinton will testify oral sex is not banned in the bible!

  37. Mark

    You know what Homer – we’re coming close to agreeing on something to do with religion for once!

  38. Mark

    You know what Homer – we’re coming close to agreeing on something to do with religion for once!

  39. Nic White

    I havent made myself clear enough.

    My point is about the concept of “virginity”. Im by no means saying that other acts arent sexual in nature and dont pose health risks and dont need to be part of sex education – of course they do!

    Im not advocating the stupid idea of abstinence-only education, Im just defining what Id say “I had sex” in reference to. Id say something else if Id not “gone all the way”.

  40. Nic White

    I havent made myself clear enough.

    My point is about the concept of “virginity”. Im by no means saying that other acts arent sexual in nature and dont pose health risks and dont need to be part of sex education – of course they do!

    Im not advocating the stupid idea of abstinence-only education, Im just defining what Id say “I had sex” in reference to. Id say something else if Id not “gone all the way”.

  41. Mark

    Fair enough, Nic – but that raises the further question, as I noted with regard to same-sex intimacy, about why vaginal sex is seen as being the “be all and end all”.

  42. Mark

    Fair enough, Nic – but that raises the further question, as I noted with regard to same-sex intimacy, about why vaginal sex is seen as being the “be all and end all”.

  43. Nic White

    Id put anal sex on par.

  44. Nic White

    Id put anal sex on par.

  45. Homer Paxton

    what is so stupid about telling kids not to have sex until they are married?

  46. Homer Paxton

    what is so stupid about telling kids not to have sex until they are married?

  47. Nabakov

    There’s nothing stupid at all about it Homer. However expecting most of them to then actually do so, is stupid.

    Incidentally were you a virgin on your wedding night?

  48. Nabakov

    There’s nothing stupid at all about it Homer. However expecting most of them to then actually do so, is stupid.

    Incidentally were you a virgin on your wedding night?

  49. Homer Paxton

    Ah so it isn’t stupid to teach them that but merely stupid that they actually do it.
    Perhaps it is because of the teaching itself. Under those conditions you are teaching something you do not believe in.
    Best not to tell your kids not use use drugs either!

  50. Homer Paxton

    Ah so it isn’t stupid to teach them that but merely stupid that they actually do it.
    Perhaps it is because of the teaching itself. Under those conditions you are teaching something you do not believe in.
    Best not to tell your kids not use use drugs either!

  51. Nabakov

    Um, what part of “expecting” didn’t you understand?

    Admit it Homer, yer ripped to the gills by most lunchtimes these days, aren’t you?

  52. Nabakov

    Um, what part of “expecting” didn’t you understand?

    Admit it Homer, yer ripped to the gills by most lunchtimes these days, aren’t you?

  53. Mark

    Tim D has some news on some more horrors caused by the anti-sex ed crowd.

  54. Mark

    Tim D has some news on some more horrors caused by the anti-sex ed crowd.

  55. Homer Paxton

    Nabakov there is something fishy about saying ripped to the gills.
    I must say I have no idea of what you are trying to impute onto me.

  56. Homer Paxton

    Nabakov there is something fishy about saying ripped to the gills.
    I must say I have no idea of what you are trying to impute onto me.

  57. Nabakov

    Face it Homer, sooner or later, the internet will sniff out your “other” life. Those long mysterious motorbike trips up north, the heavy-duty fan extractor installed in your shed, the Nine Inch Nails songs hidden on your computer, the nude hanggliding on acid photos.

  58. Nabakov

    Face it Homer, sooner or later, the internet will sniff out your “other” life. Those long mysterious motorbike trips up north, the heavy-duty fan extractor installed in your shed, the Nine Inch Nails songs hidden on your computer, the nude hanggliding on acid photos.

  59. Homer Paxton

    Nabakov could you get someone who knows english to translate what you said.

    Remember they had to burn the school down to get me out!

  60. Homer Paxton

    Nabakov could you get someone who knows english to translate what you said.

    Remember they had to burn the school down to get me out!

  61. Nic White

    Nab what on Earth are you on about.

  62. Nic White

    Nab what on Earth are you on about.

  63. Nabakov

    Jeezus Nic, want me to cut up yer food as well?

    OK. Me like Homer ‘cos he nice, thoughtful sweet guy. But think he bit old fashioned. ‘Cos like Homer, tease him. Australian way, right? So now doing impressionist studies of Homer secret life that is so different to blogging Homer. Is joke, right?

  64. Nabakov

    Jeezus Nic, want me to cut up yer food as well?

    OK. Me like Homer ‘cos he nice, thoughtful sweet guy. But think he bit old fashioned. ‘Cos like Homer, tease him. Australian way, right? So now doing impressionist studies of Homer secret life that is so different to blogging Homer. Is joke, right?