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122 responses to “Propositions on the Liberal right week of FAIL”

  1. Leinad

    On b), c) and d):

    Given that the Liberal base is hopping mad and thinks it’s the silent majority on this I think it’s fairly plausible that a lot of moderates who would vote with Turnbull on straight policy political grounds would be worried about being topped in preselection fights by b) – we might not be America but the Minchinites clearly think we are and could go NY-23 on their arses.

    I’d also re-iterate that it’s possible for the Liberal trogs to be blinkered dinosaurs fat and accustomed to dominating the small furry warm-blooded moderates AND for Malcom Turnbull to be a divisive, arrogant, alienating grandstander who doesn’t listen to his allies and does no favours to those who’d stand with him.

  2. patrickg

    Agreed on everything. I really do believe this is a watershed moment in Liberal history.

    What has been really interesting to me in all this is the role that the media has played: Van Onselen and his coterie of circle jerk troglodytes have long entertained delusions of grandeur; I’m as surprised as anyone to see that those delusions are in fact correct – albeit not with the public, not with any party except the liberals, and not with any liberals but frankly the fucking morons. But grandeur nevertheless. This would have happened without their rabid enabling.

  3. Sir Henry Casingbroke

    Turnbull’s speech at 7pm today was gutsy and out of left field. He did look and sound like leader. But the Liberal Party of Australia, having been taken over by the far right with help from John Winston Howard, will get rid of him and elect Tony Abbott. That’s the ticket. The only thing left is for Kevin to give Malcolm a job after it is all over.
    Crossposted at Harry Clarke earlier.

  4. mitchell porter

    “text messages and phone calls and emails from Liberal party members and Andrew Bolt’s followers do not equate to a shift in public opinion”

    I don’t know how many climate change skeptics there are in the general population, but they are very vocal, and they are not going away, especially after “Climategate”. So even if there has not been a shift in public opinion, there has been a hardening of opinion within this group, and they will feel newly empowered by these events on the Coalition side. If I was a party political strategist, I would be scrambling to understand them as precisely and objectively as possible at this point.

  5. Andrew Bartlett

    It might well do Turnbull a favour in the longer-term if he gets rolled in this situation. If he is perceived as being rolled by the climate change deniers, he will be able to sit on the backbench and represent the modernising path for the Libs. Whoever becomes leader in this circumstance will certainly lose at the next election, and Turnbull would be able to come back into the Leader’s role with greater credibility than he’s managed to build this time around.

    He may as well let the hardline Conservatives take things through to an electoral annihilation – it is likely to be the best path to convincing a majority that modernising and a return to somewhere remotely near the centre is the only prospect for the Libs. ALthough the big unknown is who would remain in the Liberals party room after an electoral thrashing, and whether the hardliners relative position would be strengthened rather than weakened.

  6. Robert Merkel

    The Liberal Right have shown themselves to be completely unelectable crazies. Liberals are not Republicans and Australia is not America. This appears to be news to some, and it’s hard to know why.

    A lot of them seem to get their news exclusively from American right-wing news sources.

    When you start believing your own propaganda, you’ve got problems. When you start believing propaganda imported from another country that’s in many ways quite different, you’ve got bigger problems.

  7. Mark

    I’d also re-iterate that it’s possible for the Liberal trogs to be blinkered dinosaurs fat and accustomed to dominating the small furry warm-blooded moderates AND for Malcom Turnbull to be a divisive, arrogant, alienating grandstander who doesn’t listen to his allies and does no favours to those who’d stand with him.

    Do you think Kevin Rudd is a model of civility, consultation and niceness in the Labor party, Leinad? I don’t see that arrogance is necessarily a vice in a political leader. What would be the point of Turnbull leading this mob the way they want to go? He obviously hasn’t been comfortable or persuasive doing that – eg on asylum seekers.

    He also isn’t the first leader to confront his own party.

    And it’s worked for others in the past (though it’s also failed). But I can’t see how he could convincingly or honourably have caved into Minchin and Abbott. He’d be doomed, for sure, if seen as their puppet.

  8. John D

    If all the coalition wanted to do was avoid a double dissolution, the logical thing to do would have been to would have been to abstain on the grounds that what was being proposed was a dog of a system that couldn’t be fixed with a few amendments. This would have meant that that Labor had clear ownership of CPRS and all the problems that arise during its implementation. The coalition could have pointed to its support for the government’s emission targets as proof of its commitment to climate action.
    However, by agreeing to so many of the coalitions negotiating demands Labor had effectively transferred part of the ownership to the coalition. This mightn’t have been a problem if all they had achieved was the changes to the agricultural sector but the rest of it could be seen as the coalition looking after its big business mates rather than doing something that would boost its environmental credibility.
    I was interested in the comment about Micheal Johnston. He sent out an email outlining why he opposed CPRS – it was all about CPRS being the wrong action rather than we didn’t need action – this is in line with other things he has done in the past. Not sure to what extent opposition to CPRS came from people supporting climate action but not the CPRS.

    Interesting times.

  9. Mark

    Andrew @ 5 makes a good point.

  10. robbo

    It’s really quite obvious. Minchin,Abbott, Andrews et al are lining up for a cushy appointment , and what better way to ensure it happens than to go to work for Kevin.

    Or they should all resign and an election should be held, as these nutters are no longer fit to be employees of the taxpayers of this country.

  11. Mark

    @5 – Andrew, though, if that were to occur, where would Hockey factor in that scenario?

  12. Labor Outsider

    Thought it worth mentioning Mark that I think your analysis of this week’s machinations has been very insightful….nice work!

  13. David Irving (no relation)

    Andrew @ 5, the problem is that Turnbull doesn’t have any patience. If he gets rolled (or loses the next election), he’ll almost certainly leave politics.

    I’m beginning to think that’d be a pity, because despite his ineptness as a political player, he’s certainly added colour and movement (and demonstrated a surprising smidgen of integrity) over the last few days.

  14. Mark

    Thanks, LO! It’s been fun! Have enjoyed reading and tweeting it on Twitter too! 🙂

    http://twitter.com/LarvatusProdeo

  15. Robert Merkel

    Andrew, interesting thought, and one that’s also been running through my mind too.

    Mitchell, I’m sure they’re doing just that, but Possum’s analysis (and it tallies with stuff I’ve read elsewhere) is that the skeptic bloc is in large part rusted-on conservative voters who take Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt seriously and who wouldn’t vote Labor in a pink fit. They’re predominantly men, elderly, and live in the country.

    As for Kelly O’Dwyer, I imagine that she’s grabbed some very nice single malt out of the cabinet and poured herself a very large glass of it. It would take the perfect storm for her to actually be in trouble in the byelection, but those are some big black ugly looking clouds.

  16. Mark

    @13 – David, Turnbull has risen a lot in my estimation over the last few days.

    On impatience, he probably won’t have a long time to wait for the next election, though.

  17. Zelda Grimshaw

    well folks I’m just tickled pink watching the Liberals choke to death on their own emissions …. The fuming and steaming in the party room, not to speak of the hissy fits in the chambers, are certainly exceeding parliamentary greenhouse limits.
    I think the Climate Septics should break right away from what has clearly become a greenie-leftie front under Turnbull, and form a proper conservative party with Poorline Hanson and Barnacly Joyce as 1 and 2 IC. The Old Right Coal Fission? Or just Dinosaurs Are Us?
    I haven’t had this much fun since Maxine took Johnny’s seat ;’}

  18. Leinad

    Mark – you seem to think I think he should have caved, nowhere have I said that.

    Rudd’s position is safe and secure because he’s an incumbent with a whopping TPP, record-breaking approval ratings. Other than that he owes the party he leads nothing and they less than him. Rudd can be arrogant, he’s pwned all.

    Turnbull has none of those advantages, but has acted like he has. He’s been trying to drag his party toward electability and failing but that isn’t solely down to the Howard-loyalists – they don’t have the numbers on their own else he would have lost yesterday’s pre-emptive strike.

    There have been rumblings from non-RWDB libs about his leadership since Utegate at least, which was classic Turnbull – trying to sieze everything at once rather than slowly building up a political position. I remember back then people pointing out that he didn’t have the patience or judgdement to last in this game.

    He’s been put in an incredibly difficult position by the fossil gang and Rudd but some of that – the ‘smartarses’ and ‘back me or sack me stuff’ back in October has been of his own making.

  19. Terry

    Gee a backlash in Higgins would be a lovely outcome.

  20. Mark

    @18, ok, Leinad – thanks for clarifying. Perhaps we don’t disagree. I don’t see that Turnbull could credibly have chosen any other course than the one he’s embarked on. As I’ve been saying all week, he really has no chance other than to go the crazy brave crash through or crash option.

  21. Nickws

    Conversely, text messages and phone calls and emails from Liberal party members and Andrew Bolt’s followers do not equate to a shift in public opinion.

    Apparently Andrew Bolt has shut down the comments facilities on his Hun blog. I wonder if this is because he is self-aware enough to realise that his stranglehold on a large chunk of that 10,000 or so Liberal sub-branch members could really rebound on him in a big way.

    Forget about Turnbull getting his revenge.

    Just consider the possibility of Andrew Robb ending up as the new Liberal strongman and deciding that Bolt must be ‘Sister Souljahed’ for tactical reasons.

    Robert Merkel: A lot of them seem to get their news exclusively from American right-wing news sources.

    They should take a leaf out of the ALP culture and start distrusting all news sources.

  22. Labor Outsider

    IMHO, Hockey is better off playing the Turnbull game. Philosphically he isn’t so far from Turnbull, but has a reputation of being more of a team player and conciliatory. Surely he realises that the right wing takeover of the party has to been seen to its logical large electoral defeat before it will be ready to accept a more moderate position on a number of issues. If Hockey became leader he would be either forced to kow-tow to the hardliners, or be white-anted for his apostasy. It would be pointless. He needs to set himself as the natural alternative. Besides, he is young enough to wait for the right opportunity.

    It will be very interesting to see how all of this shakes out in the polling. If he survives that long, Turnbull will be looking for an indication that his personal standing has risen as a result of this affair. I think there is much to be admired in the way he has handled himself and the issue. It would have been far easier to have caved.

  23. Leinad

    He has no other option now.

    But now isn’t just the tale of brave, bold Malcolm being cruelling thwarted by Howardites once again – the course is one thing, but how he ended up charting it is another. It may have been just unnavigable but (to stretch the naval anecdote to breaking point) he’s never been a steady hand on the tiller.

  24. Mark

    If anything Andrew Robb would be a worse choice than Tony Abbott. His delivery is terrible, and he really comes across as being in the Libs’ vampire faction along with Ruddock. He was just awful on tv in the lead up to the last election.

  25. Mark

    @21 – Nickws, there are rumours around that Bolta is for the chop. He costs News Ltd a lot of money and they’ve been sacking staff all year.

  26. Emperor Joshua

    Gee a backlash in Higgins would be a lovely outcome.

    Won’t happen. Sorry to disappoint you, but only one person has done any electioneering and it ain’t Clive Hamilton.

    That said, I have emailed Kelly O’Dwyer asking for her position on the ETS and climate change more generally and have had zip in response.

  27. Mark

    @23 – I’m not saying this is the way it played out, but it’s possible to reinterpret the lead up to all this as being a long game by Turnbull.

  28. Sam

    The Liberals will be devastated at the next Newspoll. All the public will notice is them fighting like a bunch of 20 year old drunk bogans outside a nightclub at 2am.

    The Labor Party must be regretting they haven’t put up a candidate in Higgins.

  29. Robert Merkel

    He’s been put in an incredibly difficult position by the fossil gang and Rudd but some of that – the ’smartarses’ and ‘back me or sack me stuff’ back in October has been of his own making.

    But, sooner or later, the Liberals had to have this fight, and I don’t see how it would have played out much differently. If the hard right got the numbers and kills the CPRS, Rudd calls an election (maybe a DD, maybe not) which becomes a virtual referendum on climate change and destroys the Liberals, who then descend into violent post-election recriminations. This way, they’re descending into violent recriminations now; at some point Labor calls an election, and (fingers crossed) destroys them on the basis that they are a rabble…and they then descend into further violent post-election recriminations.

  30. kymbos

    Can’t believe Michael Johnson of Ryan has resigned his position and is throwing his hat in with the denialists. What a class-A moron. The Doctor’s Wives of Ryan will boot him out the door and the very next opportunity. Can’t believe he won last time!

  31. Mark

    And at that point, Rob, people might just stop paying any attention to them. A bit like some of the state oppositions. Then they’re really gone.

  32. Paul Burns

    Malcolm’s speech at 7 o’clock was incredibly dignified. And right. When you make a deal in politics you stick to it. If Malcolm is ousted, which I think he will be, and the Libs renege on the Climate change deal Malcolm & McFarlene has stitched up with Labor, two things will happen. The Rudd Government will never trust them again. The electorate will never trust them. The attitude of the RWDBs on CC, and their willingness to renege on an agreed deal is yet another reflection of the tissue of lies Howard used to govern, but now its out there for everytone to see, as the basic Liberal modus operandi.

  33. David Irving (no relation)

    Mark @ 16, Turnbull probably has enough patience to carry him through to the next election, but not beyond.

    Labor is certain to win the next election, and this government looks like being at least as long-lived as the Hawke – Keating government. If the Libs keep the current crap up, Rudd could beat Menzies’ record.

  34. Mark

    @32 – Paul, I was very impressed with Turnbull’s performance in his press conference.

  35. Leinad

    Robb’s one of your beleaguered Igor types, doesn’t really have the Something of the Night about him like Lich-Lord Ruddock.

  36. Andrew Bartlett

    Mark @11 It’s possible Hockey would let himself be supported into the leadership by the hard right in the grounds that he might not get another chance at the job. That might be what unfolds in the next day or so – Hockey seems to be quiet today from what I can see from afar. However, it’s hard to see how he could lead without being captive to the hard right if he did this.

    Whilst an election loss by a Hockey led Libs would be seen less as a defeat for big c Conservatism than a loss by an Abbott led Libs, I think it would still ve likely to be seen as this, given the circumstances through which he gained the leadership.

    Whether Turnbull has the patience to wait around or not I don’t know, but if he’s genuine in his statement that he went into politics to make a difference rather than just for self-aggrandisement, then he should recognise that waiting a year to get back into leadership won’t kill him.

  37. joe2

    “he’s certainly added colour and movement (and demonstrated a surprising smidgen of integrity) over the last few days.”

    Oh yeh, especially if you avert your eyes from the Senate privileges committee report, which just came out, that shows him up to his kneck in a conspiracy to remove an elected government by nefarious means.

  38. philip travers

    There is an over abundance of futurology on sites like this,and to me it is as unconvincing as the latest cover of Al Gore’s book.If and when the next number of hurricanes hit the American Continent Gore will own even more property there.I see Combet owns property near the shore,and the howling witches of Climate Chane want oodles of money spent on ,not only protecting shorelines,valid,but little folks’s properties like Combet’s.The recent floods in Coffs Harbour and Bellingen are not symptomatic of Climate Change,but, the lack of concern for older people in financing their life after a number of floods was and is a terrible indictment on Labor.And I am surprised that even mild mannered Andrew Bartlett has forgotten how mild the off shore weather as far as hurricane type things, that Queensland regularly got.Personally,whilst not voting,the choices are plainly terrible, Abbott is being completely honest as a Climate Change Denier.Which I am one too.The arguments for Climate Change human induced seem not to consider those who have developed AGW,are dependent all sorts of other people claiming this science is completely accurate and foolproof.Since when has science acted like that!?That would turn these computer models of weather outcomes into LAWS that have no type of invariable they haven’t accounted for.The only way to save science itself,is to say no to AGW and forever.If Abbott can achieve that at the ballot box,then that will be good.Because to have this certainty about not doing anything about CO2 emissions[end of the world -human disaster] is a furphy of monumental proportions.You are all fools.

  39. Mark

    @36, Andrew, but if there is a successful spill and Abbott stands and Turnbull does, I can’t see Hockey throwing his hat in the ring.

    I also think he knows he’d be foolish to lead at the next election, where if Turnbull is overthrown, they’re probably looking at wipeout territory.

  40. David Irving (no relation)

    I’d forgotten about Godwin Grech, Super Mole!, joe2. Thanks for keeping me grounded.

    Hmmm, great name for a band. SuperMole. That hasn’t been done, has it?

  41. Leinad

    I think like most of us Joe would rather inherit somewhat more than 40 seats. Hasn’t been a good few days for him.

  42. joe2

    “Thanks for keeping me grounded.”

    Your welcome David, but I wish a few others would keep their heads, as well. I think it must be something to do with Mals’ puppy dog eyes.

  43. Nickws

    Robert Merkel @ 29: But, sooner or later, the Liberals had to have this fight, and I don’t see how it would have played out much differently. If the hard right got the numbers and kills the CPRS, Rudd calls an election (maybe a DD, maybe not) which becomes a virtual referendum on climate change and destroys the Liberals, who then descend into violent post-election recriminations.

    From now on anyone who craps on about Labor doing the dirty by passing legislation before Copenhagen can be safely disregarded.

    After all, the denialists in the Liberal Party were always going to treat the outcome of the next global warming conference… just like they did the outcome of a certain conference in Japan, circa 1998.

    I’m seriously beginning to wonder if the government hasn’t brought everything to a head at this point merely because they wanted a bipartisan bill at any cost. It’s not like Malcolm is such a reliable figure that you can rely on him to be around to deal with in three months time, ETS party split or no ETS party split.

    Sadly I don’t think Rudd is that keen on fighting an election as a referendum on CC—not unless he is positive about the result.

  44. Leinad

    It was a good speech, and proper crazybrave but people shouldn’t get carried away.

  45. Bet the farm son!

    I agree with you Mark … I would be interested to see if Newspoll improves for Turnbull if he can survive long enough. The Minchin Libs look as divorced from public sentiment now as the faceless goons who ran the ALP in the mid 50’s … politics hasn’t been this fascinating since Keating tried to get Option C up … You’ve got to love an all or nothing push. Turnbull could easily go back to philanthropy and money in order to get glory. Who needs the Libs when you’re Turnbull.

  46. John D

    The following is Micheal Johnson’s statement giving his reasons for voting against the decision to support the CPRS. Not sure if he is the only one voting this way for reasons other than AGW denial.

  47. John Passant

    While it is delightful to see the Liberals destroy themselves, there is something about not seeing the wood for the trees in all of this. As I wrote on my blog the whole political class is united in opposing real measures to address climate change.

    Rudd and Turnbull have more in common with Abbott and Joyce than they do with you and me, not only over global warming but industrial relations, Afghanistan, the Northern Territory invasion, refugees, health and education spending etc etc. The list goes on and on and on.

    It seems to me the task is to build a movement for action on climate change, a mass movement that organises demos, strikes and mass civil disobedience. In other words, rather than worrying what those to the right of Labor are doing, we on the left need to be creating a movement that forces Rudd Labor to the left on climate change and, I might add, a whole range of other issues.

  48. Rockstar Philosopher

    A) I agree, this is for mine, Turnbull’s most impressive moment as leader. He’s finally showing some strength and some principles.

    B) Cory Bernardi was just on Lateline and seemed to be using the UK and US as examples of how the Libs should be trying to move further right. He also seemed to suggest the reason the Libs should move to the right was to fight off the Nats…

    C) The Libs must be running secret polling that’s vastly different than the results we’re all seeing. Wilson Tuckey reckons a pro-ETS coalition will be down to 10 seats at the next election. That, or they’re just crazy.

    E) This is what I don’t get. Now I live in inner Melbourne, so I’m by no means privy to opinion of wider Australia, but the things that completely turn people off the coalition is climate denialism and racism. I know these things work well in the sticks, but nearly everyone I know voted Labor last time around, yet I only know one or two rusted on ALP supporters. There is a big cohort out there to be gained by being liberals.

  49. Lefty E

    These 2nd-raters – cultivated and controlled by the far more cunning Howard – just can’t handle the brave new world of opposition, where you dont necessarily get a free ride from an intimidated and compliant media, and dont get to feed the chooks grainy videos when the heats on – and they’re just not up to it.

    They never stopped believing that their business-as-usual was still appropriate after its popular rejection in 2007. I suspect its because they read the Organ and watch Insiders – and confused those views with the Australian public’s.

    PS I agree, John Passant. But I’m happy to see the outright denialists killed off as a viable political force first. This is their Little Bighorn.

  50. Leinad

    What was the rest of lateline like?, I dozed off listening to Bernardi…

  51. Fran Barlow

    I suppose it’s too much to hope that the decision by the coalition to support the deal will be bucked by the Liberals in the senate.

    I think the time may have come for a bit of mischief making.

    I think maybe posing as capital c-conservatives and writing to pro-CPRS senators may put the final nail in this rotten deal and send the conservative forces into the wilderness at the same time.

    What’s not to like about that?

    Time for a visit to the Andrew Bolt/Piers Akerman blogs …

  52. Chookie

    Terry @19, my Dad reports that on talkback radio today, many of the callers claimed to be cradle Liberal-voters from Higgins… and they are saying they won’t vote Liberal.

    Either the hard right really have angered the party faithful, or a bunch of unemployed ALP supporters was organising their own entertainment. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the former. Wilson Tuckey’s appalling manners this week (it’s “Mr Turnbull”, not “this fellow”) shocked me; I have no doubt he would have horrified the North Shore matrons (or whatever they’d be in Melbourne).

  53. Mark

    Update: Turnbull’s press conference is now on YouTube.

  54. andrew_m

    On last week’s polls, Joe Hockey has a margin in North Sydney of 2-3%. With Tony Abbott as leader, that margin may well evaporate in a cloud of pissed-off women voters. Sitting back and waiting for the right time may no longer be an option for Hockey.

  55. Steve at the Pub

    Perhaps it is just plain politics. Some sitting Liberals wish to retain their preselection. The membership is not going to stand for their elected representatives supporting a whacking great new tax.

    It matters not if the Emissions Trading Scheme is a train-wreck or not, only that voters will not reelect representatives who do not represent them.

    My call: Turnbull is crippled, will be spilled, and won’t be back.

  56. Nickws

    Bernardi was interesting, for a clod.

    He’s not a denialist, but has adamantly opposed the CPRS, saying he would never vote for it. His rationale is that it’s a tax grab, and teh Liberals don’t believe in raising taxes (GSTs be damned).

    This portrait he paints of himself is that he’s a pragmatic, real world, real science, pro-environment opponent of cap`n’trade (though I don’t think he’s gone as far as the newly hairy-chested Michael Sutchbury of the Oz, who reckons real conservatives should oppose ETSs but support flat carbon taxes.)

    Yet for Cory, sadly, Turnbull, Hunt, & Chainsaw McFarlane have gone and destroyed the whole basis for being a nice-guy opponent of the CPRS.

    He can hardly say he is a middle-of-the-road chap now, can he?

    I think that’s why he was wallowing in the “conservatism never fails, it’s just never properly implemented” BS. (That’s the same rationale as the defenders of the old Soviet Bloc, innit?)

  57. Mark

    (That’s the same rationale as the defenders of the old Soviet Bloc, innit?)

    Yep. It’s the mark of radicals – we only failed because our principles weren’t pushed far enough!

  58. Andrew E

    Andrew B @ 36, Hockey would call bullshit on the whole idea that he might not get another chance. Minchin and Abbott know it too. Hockey could end up as the Steven Bradbury of the Liberal Party and he won’t do that by getting ahead of himself.

    As I’ve said elsewhere, if Hawke could et past the grog then Turnbull can get over himself. If Turnbull can stick to his guns it will wipe away the whole Grech thing: all Prime Ministers have a howler like that in their past.

    I think c) and d) are on the money, Mark. I’ve attempted to explain b) (note: not to excuse or justify it) at my blog.

  59. Mark

    Thanks, Andrew. I’ll add a link to the post.

  60. Mark

    Elsewhere: Club Troppo, The Stump.

  61. Chris

    After today I have a lot more respect for Turnbull. He’s political party leader who is actually leading – something we haven’t seen on either side of politics for a while.

    Imagine where we could be today if Rudd was willing to spend just a little of his political capital.

  62. thewetmale

    Good post Mark.

    I tuned into 2GB (the station that has Alan Jones on at breakfast) for a brief moment this afternoon when prompted by a few tweets. They had Paul Henderson on, the Liberals candidate for Bradfield and they were fielding call after call from people that were “life long Liberal voters” who were saying they’d never vote Liberal again because they might pass the ETS.

    This really is loony tunes stuff but the loons can work themselves into quite a huff about it so it wouldn’t surprise me if the Liberals’ parliamentary offices were being flooded with correspondence. Too bad for them that they’re crazy enough to believe the hype.

    Also between yours and Andrew Elders posts alone you’d have a much better range and depth of analysis than what was offered up by Peter Hartcher and Dennis Shanahan on Lateline tonight. Pity that, i thought Lateline’s actual reporting of each day’s events, particularly on Tuesday night, was quite good.

    Finally, as a person who became politically engaged under Howard, i feel really torn between wanting Rudd to be held to account and really looking forward to a Tony Abbott lead Liberal party 😉 holey moley. Who would of thought it would come to this.

  63. Michael

    THere have been plenty of jokes about an Abbott led Coalition, but mostly in the vein of – surely they’ll never be that desperate/mad.

    But on Monday, there is actually a chance that this may come to pass.

    Amazing.

  64. Mark

    @62 – thanks, the wetmale.

  65. Mike Fitzsimon

    Good analysis, Mark.

    Here’s my graphic showing how Kevin Rudd set up this “Coalition Party Reduction Scheme”. He must be beside himself with glee watching the opposition drive stakes through their hearts and come out as climate change sceptics.

  66. Nickws

    Oh, I love me a historical analogy or three.

    There has been a lot of wishful thinking that the Liberals’ inability to come to terms with anthropomorphic global warming is like the Labor split of the 1950s and ’60s – it isn’t. Some have involed the centenary of Fusion to claim this is the end of conservative politics in this country once and for all – it isn’t. The historical parallel is with the Libs’ implacable hatred of Medicare throughout the 1980s and ’90s. As soon as they got over themselves, making Medicare a neutral issue and denying the stick for Labor to beat them with, they became electable again.

    Andrew, the Medicare analogy should work, but there are some problems with it. For starters, the doctors who went around shouting “socialised medicine is a health hazard!” in the seventies found by the end of the Hawke era that they could function pretty well under a single-payer system, particularly one that was no longer meant to function as a gateway to fullblown UK-style nationalisation as Race Matthews et al had originally hoped it would when Labor first proposed it. Private insurance was also doing well, though I don’t know if they were quite as sanguine as the GPs. Secondly, I reckon a lot of the medical practitioners that Kim Beazley, Sr., got into free university courses were not as politically conservative as their predecessors were.

    Those were two very good reasons for the nineties Coalition to review their policy to Medicare, even before we get to issues of the public interest, and community attitudes.

    Now, who are the vested interests opposing the CPRS today? Just how likely are they to eventually, happily, bend to emissions targets? And it goes without saying that the ETS is a policy that is not really meant to be a favourite of the man in the street, unlike single-payer healthcare.

    In other threads here I’ve raised the spectre of bi-partisanship being a tool Rudd can use (needs to use) to extinguish residual climate change denialism in the ALP and the unions. If I’m right, and one of the most important (yet unreported) things happening now is the government winning a hardfought victory behind the scenes, despite the fact we’re all supposed to believe they’re merely a bunch of cynical, apathetic bastards who are blind to the amazing super powers “crash or crashthrough” handwaving bestows on governing parties… Then I don’t need to go into detail about the trouble a divided Liberal Party has trying to win over special interests/intelligentsia types who like to think of themselves as the free market conservative movement providing steel for the Coalition.

    The house that Hugh Morgan built is a tough adversary for any Liberal Opposition leader. Give ’em one victory now and they’ll take a very longtime to best.

    (I also agree that this won’t lead to a genuine party split ala the ALP Split, but that doesn’t mean that the sixties example of Whitlam versus the anti-Whitlam Left isn’t a pertinent example of bitter enemies trapped in a single party.

    I hadn’t thought about the centenary of the Fusion. Maybe we’ve finally moved from a labour versus non-labour political model to something else? If I’m right about Rudd shoring up his industrial wing then I think we may have just avoided a Ferguson/Morgan policy fusion 🙂 )

  67. Katz

    Denialism heaped upon denialism.

    Rightists are proclaiming: nothing to see here folks move on!

    They are whistling in the dark.

    The Liberal Right know they are unelectable. That is why their mouthpieces, for example Abbott himself are imploring Turnbull to back down and to lead the party not on his terms but on the terms of the Right.

    The Liberal Right know that they can be effective in Australian politics only under the cover of the myth that the Liberal Party is a broad church.

    Mostly, the Liberal Right are desperate to avoid discussing the recent history of the Liberal Party. They deny that Howard prosecuted a relentless purge against progressivism within the Liberal Party. The Liberal Right deny that the Liberal Right itself were the beneficiaries of that purge. The Liberal Right deny that they were Howard’s willing accomplices in that purge.

    But mostly the Liberal Right cannot deny that without the cloak of respectability of Turnbull the Liberal Right are electoral poison.

    That is why the Liberal Right NEED Turnbull.

    It is an unedifying spectacle of political parasites coming to the horrified realisation that they have killed their host.

  68. Paul

    There is only one way this can be rectified for the Liberal Party; they must split. The moderates and the conservatives are irreconcilable. The moderates must knife the conservatives – the yoke around their neck. Let them go join the Nationals and disappear into agricultural obscurity, because next to no-one is going to vote for such a troupe of fruitloops and wingnuts.

    The remaining members can reform as a Progressive Liberal Party and provide Australia with a sane opposition.

  69. Bernice

    Turnbull speech last night surprised & heartened me for a number of reasons; by stating that climate change demands a response rather than denial from any political party worth its salt, his clear articulation of this being a fight for the defining core of the Liberal Party but also his comments that negotiations occurred in good faith and must be honored.

    Rudd has made much of hastening slowly on this issue by allowing bi-partisan negotiations to drag on, ensuring the opposition has some ownership of the ETS if and when it reveals itself to be a poor mechanism for effecting greenhouse gas emissions. The possibility of Turnbull losing the leadership (and I’m not convinced he will FWIW) imperilling the passage through the Senate later today will in the immediate, test the limits of Rudd’s bi-partisan stance. But in the medium and long term, an Abbott led coalition ( or Hockey stooge) will have very little room to engage in any negotiations around anything; reduced to fishmongers screeching in the chamber. Which will also increase their reliance on using the media as a venue for attempting to engage with a process they’ve locked themselves out of. A media who will most likely use that ramped up symbiotic relationship to focus upon the Libs internal machinations; our very own Jerry Springer Show.

    It will take the Libs a very very long time to rebuild from this.

  70. murph the surf.

    Have to agree with both comments 67 and 68.
    The right faction seems to think they have the party hosatge but all I can see is a bizzare comedy skit – where the villain of the peice attempts to threaten everyone by shooting himself in the head.

  71. Jack Strocchi

    Mark says:

    a stack of Liberal seats would be at risk if a Leader is elected who is a reactionary on Howard era issues such as climate change denialism and industrial relations.

    Abbott has relinquished his support for Work Choices, at least for the time being. And Howard was not a complete “reactionary” on climate change denialism. In fact he was the first federal minister to formally propose an ETS.

    But yes, if Abbott were to become the LP leader then the L/NP would lose the next election in a landslide, and probably the one after that too.

    The Right-wing parties would probably split into an extreme “Nationalist” party and a moderate Liberal party. The former would be comprised of the Nationals and Right-wing Liberals, appealing to rural and regional voters and mineral/agricultural interests. The latter would be comprised of MOR bourgeois liberals.

    In short we would have a repetition of the old Right-wing rabble problem that Menzies solved when he disbanded the UAP and formed the Liberal Party. It too the Tories eight years to recover. I think that the current Tories are looking at a similar time-line.

  72. Chris Grealy

    a) True, there is sympathy for Turnbull after his principled stand on climate change. However, I can’t forget that he came to the leadership by rolling Nelson due to Nelson’s support of the Sorry ceremony. Apology is anathema to the far right. Anderson and Hockey would love to see Workchoices back and strengthened. Most of Australians want Rudd/Gillard to speed up its dismantling. Who’s out of touch?

  73. joe2

    “After today I have a lot more respect for Turnbull. He’s political party leader who is actually leading – something we haven’t seen on either side of politics for a while.”

    One speech, Mal develops half a testicle and many people have gone gah-gah. Since taking over, as leader, he has done just one thing to rock the conservative Minchin boat. Indeed, his support of playing out the asylum seeker fear card, ad infinitum, is a greater indication of his opportunist and cruel nature than his bungled attempt to stitch up a coup via the muddleheaded Grech.

    Last night he spoke like a man who had just booked his tickets for a very long holiday in Provence. I expect he and Lucy will plan their next move from there. I doubt, though, it will have anything to do with the philanthropy that one breathless commentator believes he will now draw back to.

  74. Cavitation

    One thing is likely if Turnball is rolled, and the Liberals succeed in rejecting or significantly delaying the ETS legislation, is that the Labor party will call a snap election.

    Does anyone know when is the earliest they can do so?

    We might get a Christmas Eve election (ie, a couple of days before Christmas), but I don’t know if it can be called so quickly. Otherwise it would need to be an end of January election.

    I suspect the government will go for a normal election, instead of a double dissolution, as this will reduce the number of Greens elected to the Senate. With the Liberal party having two/none/several leaders (probably all three options over the period involved), Labor should wipe the floor with them, and the polarisation over the environment issues should keep the Green vote down. A big win for Labor over the next three years, and they might get control of the Senate our of it. If Malbolm stays in parliament, he might keep his seat, and can return to rebuilding the party using the small representation remaining in the federal parliament. This timing also avoids the embarrassment of having a federal election at the same time as the coming debacle in the NSW state election, and before any more bad news appears from the ongoing world financial crisis meltdown.

  75. Jack Strocchi

    I should add that I dont think Abbott will become leader of the LP. Nor do I think that LP opposition to ETS will long withstand the drubbing they will receive at the next election, if they do not pass the ETS this week.

    A Right-wing split only comes onto the cards if the LP continue to delude themselves about the electorates wishes, never mind the climate. That is, if the current Right-wing faction take opposition to an ETS into the 2013 election.

    But I dont see that happening, for the reasons outlined by Andrew E. The LP Right’s opposition to ETS is similar to the LP Right’s opposition to Medicare in the 1970-80s. They got over it when they saw the electoral writing on the wall.

    The ETS is even less fundamental to the LP’s ideological identity than Medibank. So they will grit their teeth, shut their eyes and vote the thing through eventually.

  76. Jack Strocchi

    [email protected]#68 Nov 27th, 2009 at 6:28 am

    There is only one way this can be rectified for the Liberal Party; they must split. The moderates and the conservatives are irreconcilable.

    No the current conflict in the LP is a temper tantrum by some die-hards, not an ideological schism. See above.

  77. Zorronsky

    No hurry for the coming election. Another hot summer will only make the climate debate clearer in the minds of sane Australians. Turnbull is correct as he has laid it out for the dingbats and good on him for hitting out at the munchkin Minchin.
    But that’s qualified praise, he’s still the unprincipled enemy.

  78. Lefty E

    Seems Dick Smith and Bob Brown paid the ransom of the Australian journo kidnapped by Somalis.

  79. Howard Cunningham

    A few things:

    1. In any political party, if the leadership changes, then all previous arrangements are off. It is one of the benefits of changing leaders (for reference, see Doyle/Baillieu and East Link-Tolls).

    2. Any election before August next year would either have to be a double dissolution election, or just a HoR election. It would knock off the synchronicity between HoR and Senate elections. So it’ll be a DD is if is called.

    3. They all need to get over themselves. Despite the import some bring to the issue of climate change, it is but one issue. Time for someone to seriously say to the other side of the Liberal Party something like “what unites us is more than what divides us”. Personally, I think that is only going to come from the moderates.

    4. Moderates are numerous in the parliamentary parties but thin on the ground in the Liberal Party. The main reason for this is simple: the membership is really old. As a 29 year old member of the Liberal Party, I can attest to this. It’s also the reason I have been less than active lately (other than wanting to spend time with my fiance).

  80. david_h

    Left E @78 just as well we have some pragmatic public figures but these two strike me as unlikely bedfellows. Still its good to see them released.

  81. Tyro Rex

    On ABC AM this morning it was mentioned the conservatives were talking about a ‘compromise’ deal with the government over the ETS. What planet do these crazies come from? They already have a done compromise deal! Why should the ALP trust them not to break their word yet again – why they think that that the ALP will deal away it’s legislation even further can’t be from any *rational* calculation of the government position.

    I’m just sad the ALP didn’t see all this coming, and instead stitch up a much better deal with the Greens, and let the politics play out until they could hopefully get the two extra votes in the Senate after the next election.

  82. hannah's dad

    Some observations.

    This is partly just personality power politics writ large.
    The egomaniacs and the ideologues are jumping up and down “Look at moi! Look at moi!”
    Theatre of the wacky.

    I see it as clearly partly ideological, my evidence is Minchin and such in general and the monotone raving of such as Bernardi last night, “free market/Obama”, that this whole self destuctive kerfluffle is directly related to the none stop propaganda of the polluting lobby and its mouthpieces eg the OO, since before day one.
    “Long live the greenhouse mafia!, may they reign forever!”

    I think that Turnbull will prevail, albeit pyhrically, until the next election for want of an acceptable alternative.
    And that election will not be a DD, there is no advantage to the ALP in a DD, they will most likely get what they want without it and with less fuss and risk.

    Basically this is just a blip on the normal radar, OK its a big blip but when egos and ideology are in play on stage this is the sort of thing that gets exposed.

    Oh and I have little sympathy for rainman. He is distinguished by being aware that a slightly minimally responsible party needs a climate change policy. Thats all.
    The rest is ego.

  83. adrian

    I’m no fan of Turnbull, but he made a telling point ignored by most of the MSM, about integrity and keeping your word. The fact that there is a large rump of shameless hypocrites and liars in the Liberal Party should suprise no-one, but the fact that they have made it so public and transparent is the shock.

    I actually think that it’s a pretty dangerous time when you have a sizeable part of a major party determined to undermine the democratic process and frustrate not only an elected government’s agenda, but also that of the majority of its own party.

  84. david_h

    turnbull used the terms progressive party and liberals in the same sentence on AM. “Not much very good” can be said about the liberal party if they have another meeting inside a week over the leadership, according to turnbull. Will the senate vote on the bill seems to be the important question. Despite turnbull’s rhetoric about risk management and the need to give the planet the benefit of the doubt, his opponents like Abetz want him to quit if they don’t get their way.

    Abbott vs Hockey, what a circus. Even if Rudd doesn’t get his mock CPRS to take to Copenhagen he can relax on the long flight knowing the Libs have just committed electoral suicide. I think, since government jobs for the ex-libs is the way to go, Rudd and Gillard should do the honorable thing and find a place for Turnbull. It would be a mark of respect, a sign that integrity and good faith in negotiations was something worth having in political life. A government porfolio? Why not. Turnbull wouldn’t be the first millionaire to be a senior member of the so-called left wing Australian Labor Party.

  85. Sam

    Latest news is that Hockey has cut a deal with the Right to be the consensus leader in exchange for dropping the ETS.

  86. Suez

    OK, now the CPRS has caused the Liberals to self-destruct, but it has also browned Labor so much that the could take their place.This leaves a gaping space in the party political arena that the Greens are set to capitalise on.
    ( I hear they have already picked up CFMEU affiliation in WA? COnfirm/ deny someone?)

  87. Francis

    What if the legislation was to get passed today? Would the party room still roll him out of spite? Or could that turn it around?
    And if Barnaby et al filibuster in the Senate today, could the guillotine come down?

    And if you are Labor, and Malcolm is whispering on the phone, saying either support me now, cut off debate, and pass the legislation, OR face Tony Abbott at the next election…what do you do? http://vierboom.wordpress.com/2009/11/27/malcolm-is-it-custer-or-gettysburg/

  88. Rebekka

    “Kelly O’Dwyer in Higgins, for instance, is going to face a lot of pressure to take a stand on climate change and the ETS in the lead up to the by-election for Peter Costello’s former seat.”

    She has – a couple of weeks ago in teh Age: “Ms O’Dwyer revealed this week that she was a climate change believer and a supporter of some kind of emissions trading scheme”.

  89. Jane

    Tyro Rex, there’s still time for a deal with the Greens; the vote will just be delayed until it’s done. If the government does decide to deal in good faith with the Greens, it will send a very uncomfortable message to the Libtards regarding their relevance in the process, I think.

    The fact that there is a large rump of shameless hypocrites and liars in the Liberal Party should suprise no-one, but the fact that they have made it so public and transparent is the shock.

    Lefty E @ 78, I saw that report this morning on the ABC and heard the interview with Dick Smith. He claims limited credit and said that Bob Brown had to borrow money to chip in. Either way, it’s a good result. I do agree that governments can’t submit to blackmailers, however, but it makes it very difficult for people who are kidnapped and their families.

    Adrian @83, I think the shameless hypocrisy and lying has been very evident over the last 11 years. Regional rortnerships, Children overboard, Mamdouh Habib, Dr Haneef, AWB and on and on, all demonstrate that the Libs had no qualms about publicly and shamelessly lying to the electorate, which in the main swallowed it whole and adjusted their moral compasses to accommodate it.

  90. Mark

    Update: Fresh post – Abbott will stand for the leadership on Monday.

  91. Rebekka

    Jane, Labor plus the Greens is not a majority in the Senate – Labor has 32, the Greens 5. The Libs have 32, the Nats 4, Country Liberals 1 and Steve Fielding is a climate change denier, so 1 for him too. With Xenophon they have a tied vote.

  92. Fran Barlow

    senator.coonan
    senator.fierravanti-wells
    senator.Heffernan
    senator.payne
    senator.boyce
    senator.brandis
    senator.ian.macdonald
    senator.mason
    senator.trood
    senator.Humphries
    senator.birmingham
    senator.fisher
    senator.barnett
    senator.bushby
    senator.kroger
    senator.ronaldson
    senator.ryan
    senator.troeth
    senator.adams
    senator.cash
    senator.corman
    senator.eggleston
    senator.back

    The above senators may well move the gag to get the CPRS through or otherwise vote for it. Anyone who would like to stop the CPRS, should use the above user names followed by “@” followed by “aph.gov.au”. I suggest we find as many people as possible to contact them to ensure that the bill is defeated.

    Enjoy

  93. nasking

    Excellent post & thread Mark. Thought provoking & frank assessment by Andrew Bartlett. Per usual. Lotta good comments all up. joe2 keeping people grounded.

    As for Hockey, not sure I’d like to be in his shoes if “supported into the leadership by the hard right” (using Andrew’s words). Turnbull as Caeser would till be alive.

    Speaking of American politics:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/how_a_letter_from_1964_shows_w.html

    I think I prefer pollies acting like kangaroos and adapting to drastic climate shifts…than wearing elephant skins and throwing spears at their democratically elected leaders.

    N’

  94. Paul Burns

    Fran,
    If that had come from anybody other than someone like you I’d call it a Minchin-led Liberal Party conservative faction plot. 🙂
    But I agree with you. Forcing Rudd to a DD is the best way to go. He’s going to win hands down anyway. Then, hopefully with Greens holding BOP in the Senate, we’d get an effective CPRS that does something about reducing CO2 in the atmosphere (you know, the gas you can’t see or smell but that we’d die if we have either not enough or too much of it) and provides adequate compensation to householders.
    I don’t really want a long list of Liberal Party Senators in my address book, but … will do.

  95. nasking

    Make that: Turnbull as Caeser would still be alive.

    The fella who stood up to Packer. And has big bucks & contacts.

    N’

  96. Fran Barlow

    Don’t forget to put in lots of stuff about it all being a global socialist conspiracy/tax grab/ you will never vote Liberal if they do this …

    Might as well have some fun while we’re getting down and dirty.

  97. Paul Burns

    “Dear Senator Heffernan,
    I am deeply alarmed at how the socialists both in the ALP and all over the world have ling been plotting to fool good-thinking, decent people like yourself into believing the globe is warming. God would not allow this to happen. He loves us all. I have been praying daily for you and your colleagues to do God’s will and do something in Australia at least to put an end to this evil socialist conspiracy.
    Furthermore, it is absolutely clear to me that this is a tax grab by Communists everywhere determined to set up the first stage of a One World Government controlled by unscrupulous international bankers.
    The Liberal Party has always been a party of low tax. Old people like me will end up in the poorhouse if Labor, led by that nasty Mr. Rudd, are allowed to increase electricity prices through the attack on the coal industry which for many years has made this country the great country it is. The world depends on us for future energy. Mr. Rudd and his Green fellow travellers want to drive us back into the dark ages. You and your fellow senators cannot allow this to happen. That nice Mr. Howard would never have allowed it. He was a very good Christian.
    I won’t vote Liberal at the next election if your party caves into those evil socialists.
    Sincerely ….”

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    All I have to do now is copy it into an e-mail and send it.

    Why do I get the feeling they won’t believe me?

  98. mitchell porter

    Welcome to the dark side, Fran. Is what you’re proposing to do much different to the actions of cynics on the opposite side who only care about politics, not science, but who form a “climate science coalition” and issue lots of press releases? I’m sure they get a buzz out of it too.

  99. Ootz

    PB @ 97, mp @4 and Nickws @ 21

    What is it with those thousand of text messages and phone calls and emails from Liberal party members and Andrew Bolt’s followers?

    Why was there this ramping up of outrage on MSM a moth ago as reported on this blog and today on RN?

  100. David Irving (no relation)

    Trouble is, Fran, the buggers’ll write back to you.

    I sent Fielding an email a while ago (probably accusing him of being an idiot, or something) and I’m still getting his fucking newsletter.

  101. Fran Barlow

    Mitchell [email protected] said

    Welcome to the dark side, Fran. Is what you’re proposing to do much different to the actions of cynics on the opposite side who only care about politics, not science, but who form a “climate science coalition” and issue lots of press releases? I’m sure they get a buzz out of it too.

    The science is settled. All that matters is how we respond. This bill would have been worse than nothing, because it would have locked in increases in emissions and sandbagged all future improvements.

    I have no ethical problem exploiting the delusions of the culture warriors on the other side to engineer their destruction. If I can get them to commit hari kiri, humanity benefits. Good enough.

    In an odd twist, they will welcome my support. Everyone’s a winner.

  102. Mindy

    @ Paul Burns (97) even worse they could believe you.

  103. Ambigulous

    Robert M wrote

    “….they’re descending into violent recriminations now; at some point Labor calls an election, and (fingers crossed) destroys them on the basis that they are a rabble…and they then descend into further violent post-election recriminations.”

    ummm, to adapt Clarke & Dawe, those’d be the post-election recriminations you have immediately after the current round of post-election (and pre-election) recriminations, eh?

    Note to self: in the midst of recriminations, it’s always important to know exactly which round of recriminations the current ones belong to.

    🙂

  104. Ute Man

    Joe2 wrote:

    One speech, Mal develops half a testicle and many people have gone gah-gah. Since taking over, as leader, he has done just one thing to rock the conservative Minchin boat. Indeed, his support of playing out the asylum seeker fear card, ad infinitum, is a greater indication of his opportunist and cruel nature than his bungled attempt to stitch up a coup via the muddleheaded Grech.

    THIS

  105. nasking

    As I wrote on Gutter Trash:

    …for all we know this could be a long performance piece to try and bring in the Messiah Joe in order to make him look like a saviour, preaching:

    “happily unite under me dear friends & believers…we are a broad church”.

    Think of the name he gave his latest new born.

    Labor better be PREPARED. Media, Senate and such.

    I’m not bothering to watch Sky News or read the News Ltd. papers & blogs cause this is also part of a plan to make moolah & increase ratings to attract ads I imagine. The Empire likes to be Kingmakers. They’re getting antsy.

    Dya think there is any coincidence that Foxtel expands and adds local Sky News at this very point? And adds Peter Van Stressful to their Sky lineup. And The Punch stuff as well.

    Nah.

    It’s just like Murdoch got the Dow Jones & Wall Street Journal on the eve of the global downturn & US election?

    It’s a blitzkrieg…again.

    N’

  106. Island View

    Further to a few of the comments, the Party Room meeting on Monday will be fascinating as they will all have the latest Newspoll in front of them and which, I’m sure, will show a big bounce for Trunbull and a below 30% number for the party.

    I’ll be able to hear the hand wringing all the way up here in Townsville

  107. Leinad

    If Joe takes the leadership he will become the Liberal Beazley.

  108. Fran Barlow

    DI(NR said:

    Trouble is, Fran, the buggers’ll write back to you.

    I sent Fielding an email a while ago (probably accusing him of being an idiot, or something) and I’m still getting his fucking newsletter.

    And what’s wrong with that? Tell him you’ve moved and he’s bothering someone and Ask to have him email it to you at your special new email address. I created a dummy email account for just this purpose.

    Messing with the heads of these sociopaths and morons helps get me through the day. I feel as if I’m doing my bit to send them over the edge.

  109. hazym

    Sometimes, it is time to just do the right thing. Its all very well to yak about what the political implications are, who’ll get a poll bounce and who won’t, who win/loose the next election etc etc. But sometimes people just have to do the right thing, not the political thing.

    Now true enough the Libs have been dragged kicking and screaming to this, but they are there now. For the right thing is to reject this tax on the basis that its a tax that won’t achieve what it seeks to achieve and will cause untold pain to ordinary Australians for years to come. Rudd may claim that he’s trying to save the GBR or stop Melb bush-fires or whatever the latest hyperbole is, but the fact is this tax and these derisory reductions in so-called carbon pollution will do nothing other than increase the tax burden on Australians. And as the whole climate change myth unravels, the need for all this evaporates as is plain for all to see except those who are so committed to the faith as to simply refuse to acknowledge the significance of climategate.

    The Libs will pay a hefty price for this week. But in a decades time, Minchin et al will be able to stand back and say that they were on the correct side of history if not the correct side of the politics.And sometimes that’s the place to be.

  110. Tim Macknay

    This stuff about buckets of emails from Liberal rusted-ons saying they’ll never vote Liberal again if it passes the CPRS is pure tosh. Where are their preferences gonna go? Labor? It’s just the Liberal rightists talking up their game to try to scare the weaker moderates into rolling Turnbull.

  111. barry Rutherford

    As of today only Ian Macfarlane & Malcolm Turnbull have displayed any credibility from the Opposition by honouring the ammended agreement they with the Govt on the CPRS

  112. joe2

    “THIS”@104, Ute Man

    WHAT?

  113. Ute Man

    I wuz bein agreeable Joe2 – Mal might be the best of a bad bunch, but he’s still a turd. Better than a total C.H.U.D. like Minchin or Abbort, but a turd all the same.

  114. Leinad

    Turnbull looked done to me. Minchin was his usual obnoxious self.

  115. Ute Man

    Minchin is a C.H.U.D. Leinad.

    Cloddish
    Hidebound
    Utterly
    Deranged

    You could see him sitting there, bursting to yell out that he doesn’t believe in science and that the vast left wing conspiracy that is global warming will allow hairy armpitted greenies to eat government supplied babies in the streets. He’s dying to do it, I’m really surprised Red Kerry didn’t try to goad it out of him, to allow him to spout his insanity with the gormless alacrity of Bolt. The best outcome is to let the CHUDS take their ridiculous conspiracy theory to the public for a vote with Abbort at the helm.

  116. Leinad

    Agreed, Man of Utes, it’s only the hard, sharp shock of electoral reality that will quell their madness. But based on his body language in front of Röte Kezza I think Turnbull knows he’s toast.

  117. Ute Man

    Turnbull certainly didn’t have that chin thrust in defiance any more – be interesting to see whether he really has the guts to take it to a spill. I’ll be surprised if it gets that far though judging by his slouch.

  118. joe2

    Jes’ I thought ya had a profundo link for me gone wrong there, Ute Man. Ah well.
    But yer, Mal is just bad news. Minchin and Tones are plain creepy.

  119. Tim Macknay

    Ut Man @115 – I was under the impression it stood for “Cannabalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller” but either way it’s a fair description of Minchin.

  120. Ute Man

    Yairs Tim, it’s a little unfair on the original CHUD, but I don’t our new breed of CHUD understand when they are called troglodytes and need something simpler to get the point across. Bud the CHUD works for the IPA, although he calls himself Marohasy now apparently.

  121. mitchell porter

    joe2 @102 it’s a new idiom, like “FTW”. Confused me the one and only previous time I saw it, too.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=this

  122. joe2

    thanks mitch