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170 responses to “Quick links: What's wrong with the media this election year?”

  1. TerjeP

    The media is taking it personal I suspect. They put Rudd up on a pedastal and he let them down. Now they are cranky with him. Those they destroy the gods first make great.

  2. TerjeP

    The media is taking it personal I suspect. They put Rudd up on a pedastal and he let them down. Now they are cranky with him. Those they destroy the gods first make great.

  3. tssk

    This sums it up, a response from a poster responding to an article about sick sysytems. I hope he doesn’t mind the copy/paste but this totally explained the current media situation.

    http://www.metafilter.com/92873/How-to-Keep-Someone-With-You-Forever

    This – as much as ideological bias or corporate shenanigans – is why the media’s as plug-dumb and gullible as it is. You need a tidy quote now. You need it so bad you’ll let anyone you bump into on the street stand in for all of public opinion, and you’ll let anyone with an institutional name behind him be your expert witness. And so if some organization or other – say an Exxon-backed advocacy group disguised as a public interest campaign – can supply just the zinger you need or there’s some reliably quotable blowhard at the Rightwingnut Institute on your speed dial, that’s what you run with. And you’ve mostly forgotten what you wrote an hour after it’s filed, because the next day’s deadline crunch is already looming on the horizon.

    Broadly speaking, the main reason why the right wins at this game more than the left is that it plays by these rules. The right (whether corporate or political) doesn’t bemoan the lack of depth or handwring about artificial equivalencies. It simply feeds the deranged monster its favourite food, prepackaged in bite-sized containers. This is how blithering idiots come to provide balance opposite credentialed scientists and so forth.
    -Gompa

    BTW off topic but the article he was responding to was a good read at http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html

  4. tssk

    This sums it up, a response from a poster responding to an article about sick sysytems. I hope he doesn’t mind the copy/paste but this totally explained the current media situation.

    http://www.metafilter.com/92873/How-to-Keep-Someone-With-You-Forever

    This – as much as ideological bias or corporate shenanigans – is why the media’s as plug-dumb and gullible as it is. You need a tidy quote now. You need it so bad you’ll let anyone you bump into on the street stand in for all of public opinion, and you’ll let anyone with an institutional name behind him be your expert witness. And so if some organization or other – say an Exxon-backed advocacy group disguised as a public interest campaign – can supply just the zinger you need or there’s some reliably quotable blowhard at the Rightwingnut Institute on your speed dial, that’s what you run with. And you’ve mostly forgotten what you wrote an hour after it’s filed, because the next day’s deadline crunch is already looming on the horizon.

    Broadly speaking, the main reason why the right wins at this game more than the left is that it plays by these rules. The right (whether corporate or political) doesn’t bemoan the lack of depth or handwring about artificial equivalencies. It simply feeds the deranged monster its favourite food, prepackaged in bite-sized containers. This is how blithering idiots come to provide balance opposite credentialed scientists and so forth.
    -Gompa

    BTW off topic but the article he was responding to was a good read at http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html

  5. adrian

    Great links Mark, particularly the second. I await with interest Jonathon Holmes featuring this on Media Watch instead of dwelling on trivialities as he has been prone to do recently.

  6. adrian

    Great links Mark, particularly the second. I await with interest Jonathon Holmes featuring this on Media Watch instead of dwelling on trivialities as he has been prone to do recently.

  7. Mangrove Jack

    “The media is taking it personal I suspect.”

    You’re kidding Terje

    The media is like a day trader, it doesn’t care which way things are going, so long as there’s movement, even if they have to create it.

  8. Mangrove Jack

    “The media is taking it personal I suspect.”

    You’re kidding Terje

    The media is like a day trader, it doesn’t care which way things are going, so long as there’s movement, even if they have to create it.

  9. Mark

    Update: Possum has posted a stack of polling data about public views of the media.

  10. Mark

    Update: Possum has posted a stack of polling data about public views of the media.

  11. Fran Barlow

    It lacks felicity as an aphorism Terje!

    In its usual form, it runs those whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad (although in Antigones the wording is more elaborate). Subsequent iterations involving the devil and Jupiter doubtless derive from this.

    You at least needed a comma to produce your own version.

  12. Fran Barlow

    It lacks felicity as an aphorism Terje!

    In its usual form, it runs those whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad (although in Antigones the wording is more elaborate). Subsequent iterations involving the devil and Jupiter doubtless derive from this.

    You at least needed a comma to produce your own version.

  13. Fine

    I really like the Jonathan Holmes link. It points precisely to what is wrong with the journalistic ideal of ‘objectivity’, when it’s interpreted as just giving equal space to differing ideas. We’ve seen how it’s played out in the climate change debate and how the deniers have used it to suck up a lot of air time.

    I think there’s a responsibility to be fair, honest and accurate, but not to pretend that all arguments are equal. Unfortunately, The ABC’s interpretation of ‘objectivity’ deals with the amount of time differing arguments are given over within their total editorial time and space. It’s not concerned with journalists actually doing research to dig out what the facts are.

  14. Fine

    I really like the Jonathan Holmes link. It points precisely to what is wrong with the journalistic ideal of ‘objectivity’, when it’s interpreted as just giving equal space to differing ideas. We’ve seen how it’s played out in the climate change debate and how the deniers have used it to suck up a lot of air time.

    I think there’s a responsibility to be fair, honest and accurate, but not to pretend that all arguments are equal. Unfortunately, The ABC’s interpretation of ‘objectivity’ deals with the amount of time differing arguments are given over within their total editorial time and space. It’s not concerned with journalists actually doing research to dig out what the facts are.

  15. Wozza

    “What’s wrong with the media this election year?”

    Well, I could make you an argument that the answer is along the lines of “Nothing much. They have merely moved from obsequious boosterism, applied for the previous several years to anything to do with Kevin Rudd, to holding him a little better to account for his manifest and manifold failings, and this has enraged the good folk of Larvatus Prodeo who believe that talking up Labor whatever its failings is the bounden duty of the Australian media”.

    But I suspect that time spent fleshing that thesis out would be rather wasted on the audience, so I will just drop it in unfleshed and drop straight out again.

  16. Wozza

    “What’s wrong with the media this election year?”

    Well, I could make you an argument that the answer is along the lines of “Nothing much. They have merely moved from obsequious boosterism, applied for the previous several years to anything to do with Kevin Rudd, to holding him a little better to account for his manifest and manifold failings, and this has enraged the good folk of Larvatus Prodeo who believe that talking up Labor whatever its failings is the bounden duty of the Australian media”.

    But I suspect that time spent fleshing that thesis out would be rather wasted on the audience, so I will just drop it in unfleshed and drop straight out again.

  17. Fran Barlow

    In your world Wozza, “holding him a little better to account” means

    a) giving not just a free pass to dissembling by his opponents, but open slather to pile it on
    b) attaching significance to unsourced gossip where it deprecates the ALP
    c) avoiding analysis of matters of substance in order to create space for vacuous commentary

    I was happy to clear that up for you before you left.

  18. Fran Barlow

    In your world Wozza, “holding him a little better to account” means

    a) giving not just a free pass to dissembling by his opponents, but open slather to pile it on
    b) attaching significance to unsourced gossip where it deprecates the ALP
    c) avoiding analysis of matters of substance in order to create space for vacuous commentary

    I was happy to clear that up for you before you left.

  19. David Irving (no relation)

    Fran, Wozza’s connection with reality is tenuous at best.

  20. David Irving (no relation)

    Fran, Wozza’s connection with reality is tenuous at best.

  21. Howard Cunningham

    Fine’s point seems to be a bugbear among progressives.

    If two people fundamentally disagree on a topic, doesn’t it behoove the media to mention they disagree? Tony Abbott is certainly not the most popular man in this part of the cyberworld, but he is Opposition Leader, and if he says something about an important topic related to government administration, no matter how crazy-in-the-coconuts you may think he views are, his views are news. Six million Australians, give or take some, are about to vote for him.

    Over on the dark side, Bolta continues to rail against the supposed “balance” of the panelists on Q&A. Next Monday we have Richo, Emerson, Hanson-Young, Turnbull, and Jessica Brown from CIS. All political, all partisan. 2 ALP, 1 LIB, 1 GRN and 1 RWDB.

    Wouldn’t a “balanced” panel be 1 GRN, 1 ALP, 1 small “l” LIB, 1 RWDB and one apolitical person? I’ve never seen the “balance” go the other way. (I fall into Turnbull’s group, BTW.)

    It’s not a news show, it’s a current affairs/panel show.

    To answer the question posed in the title of the post – nothing new.

  22. Howard Cunningham

    Fine’s point seems to be a bugbear among progressives.

    If two people fundamentally disagree on a topic, doesn’t it behoove the media to mention they disagree? Tony Abbott is certainly not the most popular man in this part of the cyberworld, but he is Opposition Leader, and if he says something about an important topic related to government administration, no matter how crazy-in-the-coconuts you may think he views are, his views are news. Six million Australians, give or take some, are about to vote for him.

    Over on the dark side, Bolta continues to rail against the supposed “balance” of the panelists on Q&A. Next Monday we have Richo, Emerson, Hanson-Young, Turnbull, and Jessica Brown from CIS. All political, all partisan. 2 ALP, 1 LIB, 1 GRN and 1 RWDB.

    Wouldn’t a “balanced” panel be 1 GRN, 1 ALP, 1 small “l” LIB, 1 RWDB and one apolitical person? I’ve never seen the “balance” go the other way. (I fall into Turnbull’s group, BTW.)

    It’s not a news show, it’s a current affairs/panel show.

    To answer the question posed in the title of the post – nothing new.

  23. tssk

    I agree with Fine and disagree with Howard and Wozza.

    However in the interest of fairness here’s one senior political reporters’ view on Rudd and then the view of five hundred ordinary Australian voters.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/labor_members_are_ready_to_dump_rudd/

  24. tssk

    I agree with Fine and disagree with Howard and Wozza.

    However in the interest of fairness here’s one senior political reporters’ view on Rudd and then the view of five hundred ordinary Australian voters.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/labor_members_are_ready_to_dump_rudd/

  25. Fran Barlow

    You’re quoting serial liar Piers Akerman now tssk?

  26. Fran Barlow

    You’re quoting serial liar Piers Akerman now tssk?

  27. adrian

    Calling Piers Ackerman a senior political reporter is like calling Pim Verbaken a skilled tactician.
    Surely your definition of fairness needs some sort of dramatic revision.

  28. adrian

    Calling Piers Ackerman a senior political reporter is like calling Pim Verbaken a skilled tactician.
    Surely your definition of fairness needs some sort of dramatic revision.

  29. billie

    Agree with Jonathon Holmes and go further.

    This “he said, she said” school of journalism has played straight into the hands of the very powerful. The Australian Parliament is much like the US Congress where Senators are incapable of conscience voting because they have been so thoroughly bought by the businesses that provide lobbyists to prowl the corridors of power.

    The Rolex Revolutionaries are not only fighting to avoid paying a more equitable share of tax but they have scuttled any meaningful ETS scheme because applying a carbon tax to coal mining would seriously dint their profits.

    These are the same rent seekers keen to boost the Australian population so that they can build more houses, bad luck about the additional travel time, the congested trains, the adults forced to live with their parents, the farm land in secure rainfall regions turned into housing subdivisions.

    Now what proportion of the Australian electorate follows like sheep? We will find out on election night.

    Do we get the journalists we pay for? Newspapers employ far fewer journalists than in the past. Crikey says 65% of the content of tabloids is press releases furnished by right wing think tanks like IPA, Grattan Institute, Lowy Institute, and lobbyists like the Minerals Council.

    When you add the governments reliance on external consultants to provide independent analysis rather than use public servants you realise that public debate is very synchophantic. Ross Gittins has questioned why you would trust a consultant whose major aim is to please the commissoning body so they get more work.

  30. billie

    Agree with Jonathon Holmes and go further.

    This “he said, she said” school of journalism has played straight into the hands of the very powerful. The Australian Parliament is much like the US Congress where Senators are incapable of conscience voting because they have been so thoroughly bought by the businesses that provide lobbyists to prowl the corridors of power.

    The Rolex Revolutionaries are not only fighting to avoid paying a more equitable share of tax but they have scuttled any meaningful ETS scheme because applying a carbon tax to coal mining would seriously dint their profits.

    These are the same rent seekers keen to boost the Australian population so that they can build more houses, bad luck about the additional travel time, the congested trains, the adults forced to live with their parents, the farm land in secure rainfall regions turned into housing subdivisions.

    Now what proportion of the Australian electorate follows like sheep? We will find out on election night.

    Do we get the journalists we pay for? Newspapers employ far fewer journalists than in the past. Crikey says 65% of the content of tabloids is press releases furnished by right wing think tanks like IPA, Grattan Institute, Lowy Institute, and lobbyists like the Minerals Council.

    When you add the governments reliance on external consultants to provide independent analysis rather than use public servants you realise that public debate is very synchophantic. Ross Gittins has questioned why you would trust a consultant whose major aim is to please the commissoning body so they get more work.

  31. Jamo

    Oh Please!!!!! Get over it. The media has always supported opposition’s against the government of the day, including Rudd in 07. Lats start talking about real policies and issues instead of whingeing about the media.

  32. Jamo

    Oh Please!!!!! Get over it. The media has always supported opposition’s against the government of the day, including Rudd in 07. Lats start talking about real policies and issues instead of whingeing about the media.

  33. H&R

    What Jamo said. It’s one of the Purple Prod’s more tedious chestnuts.

  34. H&R

    What Jamo said. It’s one of the Purple Prod’s more tedious chestnuts.

  35. Tom C

    Journalists need easy stories

    Polls go down: “Rudd has had it”

    Polls go down further …

  36. Tom C

    Journalists need easy stories

    Polls go down: “Rudd has had it”

    Polls go down further …

  37. Ron

    Big slices of Public beleive TV and newspapers report a politcal storys as statements of fact of 2 opposing Partys , a la reporting of facts as “News” of a bush fire or of a terrible car accident

    Most public do not realize TV and Papers edit , cut & manilulate pollies quotes to “present” by misreprentaton there biasd views…preceded often by there own biased comentary as an Intro

    Intensity & bias has increased because Fairfax has taken over some key radio Stations , has changed independant Age’ to right’ plus ABC clones oz Storys , and TV chanels 7 , 9 and 10 hav gone ‘tabloid’, and Sky is 24/7 as is Net News

    These recent Media changes in bias spread & 24/7 nature makes 4th Estate powerful back to pre TV times

    Rudd just can not communicate because he gets no chanse to do so , and instead anti Labor messages get ‘presented’ as factual

    Rudd’s cause has not been helped by some poor strategic polical polisy decisions , even though they were sound polisy based polisy decisions…eg no replacement 5% third CPRS put up , Net Filter without a later option out , and Cig Tax in 2010 and not 2011 , Insulation 1.1 million program benefits were not Govt advertised to sell co2 reduction benefit and its job benefits

  38. Ron

    Big slices of Public beleive TV and newspapers report a politcal storys as statements of fact of 2 opposing Partys , a la reporting of facts as “News” of a bush fire or of a terrible car accident

    Most public do not realize TV and Papers edit , cut & manilulate pollies quotes to “present” by misreprentaton there biasd views…preceded often by there own biased comentary as an Intro

    Intensity & bias has increased because Fairfax has taken over some key radio Stations , has changed independant Age’ to right’ plus ABC clones oz Storys , and TV chanels 7 , 9 and 10 hav gone ‘tabloid’, and Sky is 24/7 as is Net News

    These recent Media changes in bias spread & 24/7 nature makes 4th Estate powerful back to pre TV times

    Rudd just can not communicate because he gets no chanse to do so , and instead anti Labor messages get ‘presented’ as factual

    Rudd’s cause has not been helped by some poor strategic polical polisy decisions , even though they were sound polisy based polisy decisions…eg no replacement 5% third CPRS put up , Net Filter without a later option out , and Cig Tax in 2010 and not 2011 , Insulation 1.1 million program benefits were not Govt advertised to sell co2 reduction benefit and its job benefits

  39. Mr Denmore

    tssk’s quote above sums it up pretty well. People over-rate perceived political bias and under-rate how economic factors drive this increasingly frenzied race to fill the white spaces and empty air time…like right now. The Right, with its clearer understanding of how markets operate, exploits this better than the Left and provides tight, publishing-ready quotes that fit the pre-constructed narrative.

    Forget the debate about political bias. It will never be resolved. One side inevitably will accuse the other of blaming the messenger for not making their own team look good. There are institutional and economic reasons for the way the spin machine operates.

    Here’s an analogy. If you look at the sea from far away, you see only a benign patch of blue. The closer you get, though, the more the choppiness becomes visible and the less you appreciate the big picture. Likewise, the media, by virtue of its need to file in real time, is now bedazzled by the tiniest of cross currents. Journalists don’t step back and see the big picture anymore. Canny communicators exploit that and float paper boats on “the waves” – and the gullible journos provide real-time commentary on these heroic, but insignificant, voyages.

    It’s analogous to what has happened in the global financial crisis. Increasing intradahy volatility makes money managers so hostage to micro-movements that they are rendered incapable or unwilling to make decisions. The result is that their perception of time changes, so that everything seems much more significant than it appears in less amplified cycles. In the media context, this means journalists lose the power of judgement, the ability to make smart editorial decisions that separate noise from signal.

    Normally so proud of their ability as bullshit detectors, they can’t see this and will not accept that their judgement has become chronically skewed. They have been spun by the spinners. They have been spun so much they cannot see clearly.

  40. Mr Denmore

    tssk’s quote above sums it up pretty well. People over-rate perceived political bias and under-rate how economic factors drive this increasingly frenzied race to fill the white spaces and empty air time…like right now. The Right, with its clearer understanding of how markets operate, exploits this better than the Left and provides tight, publishing-ready quotes that fit the pre-constructed narrative.

    Forget the debate about political bias. It will never be resolved. One side inevitably will accuse the other of blaming the messenger for not making their own team look good. There are institutional and economic reasons for the way the spin machine operates.

    Here’s an analogy. If you look at the sea from far away, you see only a benign patch of blue. The closer you get, though, the more the choppiness becomes visible and the less you appreciate the big picture. Likewise, the media, by virtue of its need to file in real time, is now bedazzled by the tiniest of cross currents. Journalists don’t step back and see the big picture anymore. Canny communicators exploit that and float paper boats on “the waves” – and the gullible journos provide real-time commentary on these heroic, but insignificant, voyages.

    It’s analogous to what has happened in the global financial crisis. Increasing intradahy volatility makes money managers so hostage to micro-movements that they are rendered incapable or unwilling to make decisions. The result is that their perception of time changes, so that everything seems much more significant than it appears in less amplified cycles. In the media context, this means journalists lose the power of judgement, the ability to make smart editorial decisions that separate noise from signal.

    Normally so proud of their ability as bullshit detectors, they can’t see this and will not accept that their judgement has become chronically skewed. They have been spun by the spinners. They have been spun so much they cannot see clearly.

  41. tssk

    Fran and Adrian @ 13 and 14I was merely pointing Wozza and Howard towards the quality independent journalism they seek in amongst a sea of obviously Pro Rudd media.

    It’s so hard to find anyone criticising Rudd it seems.

    And Mr Denmore. (Without sarcasm for this bit.) Exactly. I do think with the ABC there’s a hint of bias in that they know if the Lib’s get back in they’ll finish up clearing house but otherwise I agree with you entirely.

    I’d also add that some opinionists have made the old mistake of becoming part of the story/narrative. They see themselves as players and kingmakers as they are flattered by spinners from both sides.

  42. tssk

    Fran and Adrian @ 13 and 14I was merely pointing Wozza and Howard towards the quality independent journalism they seek in amongst a sea of obviously Pro Rudd media.

    It’s so hard to find anyone criticising Rudd it seems.

    And Mr Denmore. (Without sarcasm for this bit.) Exactly. I do think with the ABC there’s a hint of bias in that they know if the Lib’s get back in they’ll finish up clearing house but otherwise I agree with you entirely.

    I’d also add that some opinionists have made the old mistake of becoming part of the story/narrative. They see themselves as players and kingmakers as they are flattered by spinners from both sides.

  43. nasking

    The media are suffering from a virus Mark.

    The virus that killed the paid parental leave scheme news

    http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/the-virus-that-killed-the-paid-parental-leave-scheme-news/

    Has Kerry O’Brien been INFECTED with the BASH RUDD virus?

    Tonite on the 7:30 Report Kerry wasn’t interested in the historic passage of the first national paid parental leave scheme by the Senate…no matter how many times PM Rudd valiantly brought it up.

    No, Kerry was too busy being preachy & condescending, giving his negative opinion of Labor under Rudd. And providing advice.

    N’

  44. nasking

    The media are suffering from a virus Mark.

    The virus that killed the paid parental leave scheme news

    http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/the-virus-that-killed-the-paid-parental-leave-scheme-news/

    Has Kerry O’Brien been INFECTED with the BASH RUDD virus?

    Tonite on the 7:30 Report Kerry wasn’t interested in the historic passage of the first national paid parental leave scheme by the Senate…no matter how many times PM Rudd valiantly brought it up.

    No, Kerry was too busy being preachy & condescending, giving his negative opinion of Labor under Rudd. And providing advice.

    N’

  45. adrian

    Lead item on ABC radio news concerning parental leave scheme: “The Federal Opposition and the Greens have crticised the government’s parental leave scheme….”

  46. adrian

    Lead item on ABC radio news concerning parental leave scheme: “The Federal Opposition and the Greens have crticised the government’s parental leave scheme….”

  47. Patricia WA

    Kerry O’Brien tonight epitomised everything that’s wrong with the media this year. A classic example of what’s been happening to Rudd and his ministers for months now. What an appalling interview! Such hubris!

    O’Brien’s resignation is the one we need to hear about. He seems to have given up any idea of bipartisan or objective questioning. I got the impression he was auditioning for pre-selection by the Libs, perhaps with leadership ambitions in mind.

    At least we know that our PM can withstand pressure in difficult times.

  48. Patricia WA

    Kerry O’Brien tonight epitomised everything that’s wrong with the media this year. A classic example of what’s been happening to Rudd and his ministers for months now. What an appalling interview! Such hubris!

    O’Brien’s resignation is the one we need to hear about. He seems to have given up any idea of bipartisan or objective questioning. I got the impression he was auditioning for pre-selection by the Libs, perhaps with leadership ambitions in mind.

    At least we know that our PM can withstand pressure in difficult times.

  49. Patricia WA

    PS I made a comment on the 7.30 Report an hour or so ago. It hasn’t so far appeared. I noted that almost all of the several comments so far published were critical of O”Brien and were all made shortly after 8.00 pm EST. It’s now some three hours on from then and I’m wondering if they’ve had an avalanche of complaints. Or do the crew there shut up shop and go home at 8.30 EST?

  50. Patricia WA

    PS I made a comment on the 7.30 Report an hour or so ago. It hasn’t so far appeared. I noted that almost all of the several comments so far published were critical of O”Brien and were all made shortly after 8.00 pm EST. It’s now some three hours on from then and I’m wondering if they’ve had an avalanche of complaints. Or do the crew there shut up shop and go home at 8.30 EST?

  51. Rom

    Patricia WA

    If only a few complaints ar “officaly” recorded , then “officialy” O’Brien’s interview had little critics and was deemed even handed…fair and balansed ABC

    Mr Denmore
    “Forget the debate about political bias. One side inevitably will accuse the other of blaming the messenger for not making their own team look good.”

    so you think oz Newspaper is not biased , that is spin

    ABC NEWS
    Lead item on ABC radio news concerning parental leave scheme: “The Federal Opposition and the Greens have crticised the government’s parental leave scheme….”

    This historical ‘left’ Reform introduced today gets this anti Labor treatment
    Yes Mr Denmore , there is no anti Labor ABC bias either , and Public DO get told facts so they can make an informd decision

  52. Rom

    Patricia WA

    If only a few complaints ar “officaly” recorded , then “officialy” O’Brien’s interview had little critics and was deemed even handed…fair and balansed ABC

    Mr Denmore
    “Forget the debate about political bias. One side inevitably will accuse the other of blaming the messenger for not making their own team look good.”

    so you think oz Newspaper is not biased , that is spin

    ABC NEWS
    Lead item on ABC radio news concerning parental leave scheme: “The Federal Opposition and the Greens have crticised the government’s parental leave scheme….”

    This historical ‘left’ Reform introduced today gets this anti Labor treatment
    Yes Mr Denmore , there is no anti Labor ABC bias either , and Public DO get told facts so they can make an informd decision

  53. Lefty E

    Attention Australian political journos:

    The media needs to confront this central fact: a majority of the intelligentsia of this nation honestly think you’re doing a rubbish job.

    If your immediate reaction to the above was “they’re all feckn’ lefties, screw them”, then you’ve merely proven the point: you’ve become nought but a culture warrior.

    Have a good, honest look at yourself. Where’s the integrity?

  54. Lefty E

    Attention Australian political journos:

    The media needs to confront this central fact: a majority of the intelligentsia of this nation honestly think you’re doing a rubbish job.

    If your immediate reaction to the above was “they’re all feckn’ lefties, screw them”, then you’ve merely proven the point: you’ve become nought but a culture warrior.

    Have a good, honest look at yourself. Where’s the integrity?

  55. Jacques de Molay

    According to Paul Kelly on The Nation tonight Rudd’s dip in the polls is explained by “his failure to fashion a new narrative after the global financial crisis”.

  56. Jacques de Molay

    According to Paul Kelly on The Nation tonight Rudd’s dip in the polls is explained by “his failure to fashion a new narrative after the global financial crisis”.

  57. Jack Strocchi

    Lefty E @ #27 said:

    Attention Australian political journos:

    The media needs to confront this central fact: a majority of the intelligentsia of this nation honestly think you’re doing a rubbish job.

    If your immediate reaction to the above was “they’re all feckn’ lefties, screw them”, then you’ve merely proven the point: you’ve become nought but a culture warrior.

    That might be true, but it would also prove the converse point, that “the majority of intelligentsia are…nought but culture warriors”.

    In any case, surely you mean “The Australian”, not “Australian”, political journos? I would agree that Shanahan, Milne et al leave much to be desired.

    But Michelle Grattan, Peter Hartcher, Paul Bonjiorno, Laurie Oakes are not the first names that spring to mind when the phrase “right-wing culture warrior” is mentioned. Not to mention Mike Steketee and Philip Adams who do write for the Australian.

    If you believe that these guys are instinctively anti-Left you are biased beyond belief.

  58. Jack Strocchi

    Lefty E @ #27 said:

    Attention Australian political journos:

    The media needs to confront this central fact: a majority of the intelligentsia of this nation honestly think you’re doing a rubbish job.

    If your immediate reaction to the above was “they’re all feckn’ lefties, screw them”, then you’ve merely proven the point: you’ve become nought but a culture warrior.

    That might be true, but it would also prove the converse point, that “the majority of intelligentsia are…nought but culture warriors”.

    In any case, surely you mean “The Australian”, not “Australian”, political journos? I would agree that Shanahan, Milne et al leave much to be desired.

    But Michelle Grattan, Peter Hartcher, Paul Bonjiorno, Laurie Oakes are not the first names that spring to mind when the phrase “right-wing culture warrior” is mentioned. Not to mention Mike Steketee and Philip Adams who do write for the Australian.

    If you believe that these guys are instinctively anti-Left you are biased beyond belief.

  59. Fran Barlow

    I’ve heard enough of Grattan’s vacuous right-of-centre-posing-as-insider-and-oracle on the Fran Kelly show to declare on both their predispositions, Jack. When Grattan begins: I do think … one may be sure that some utterly derivative pro-conservative piffle is about to ensue.

  60. Fran Barlow

    I’ve heard enough of Grattan’s vacuous right-of-centre-posing-as-insider-and-oracle on the Fran Kelly show to declare on both their predispositions, Jack. When Grattan begins: I do think … one may be sure that some utterly derivative pro-conservative piffle is about to ensue.

  61. CMMC

    Patricia WA, I imagine you are referring to comments you made on the 7.30 Report blog?

    This even happens to comments on the JJJ website. I suspect all of the ABC’s online offerings are being heavily moderated by some Conservitard clique – their takeover of the national broadcaster is “root and branch” stuff.

    Meanwhile the newspapers are shamelessly asking the federal government for more advertising dollars.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/newspapers-pitch-for-canberra-dollars-20100617-yjyj.html

  62. CMMC

    Patricia WA, I imagine you are referring to comments you made on the 7.30 Report blog?

    This even happens to comments on the JJJ website. I suspect all of the ABC’s online offerings are being heavily moderated by some Conservitard clique – their takeover of the national broadcaster is “root and branch” stuff.

    Meanwhile the newspapers are shamelessly asking the federal government for more advertising dollars.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/newspapers-pitch-for-canberra-dollars-20100617-yjyj.html

  63. Patricia WA

    So, CMMC, is it really that simple? Howard saturated the MSM with money for his government advertising. Rudd fulfils his promise to reverse this ‘obscenity’. This is payback by the media?

  64. Patricia WA

    So, CMMC, is it really that simple? Howard saturated the MSM with money for his government advertising. Rudd fulfils his promise to reverse this ‘obscenity’. This is payback by the media?

  65. Howard Cunningham

    Come on guys, Kerry-O tries to destroy any politician who sits across from him. It has always been this way, and always will be this way.

    Different if you are some obscure foreign artist. Then you get the “60 Minutes” treatment from Kerry.

  66. Howard Cunningham

    Come on guys, Kerry-O tries to destroy any politician who sits across from him. It has always been this way, and always will be this way.

    Different if you are some obscure foreign artist. Then you get the “60 Minutes” treatment from Kerry.

  67. Tim Macknay

    I have to agree with Howard Cunningham on this one. When it gets to the point where people are accusing Kerry O’Brien of having a pro-Liberal bias, it’s gone beyond hysteria. Sure, Kerry was sticking to a particular narrative and focusing on some relatively minor statement Rudd had made, but “auditioning for pre-selection by the Libs”? Give me a break!

  68. Tim Macknay

    I have to agree with Howard Cunningham on this one. When it gets to the point where people are accusing Kerry O’Brien of having a pro-Liberal bias, it’s gone beyond hysteria. Sure, Kerry was sticking to a particular narrative and focusing on some relatively minor statement Rudd had made, but “auditioning for pre-selection by the Libs”? Give me a break!

  69. adrian

    This post from ‘The Big Ship’ on Poll Bludger sums up very well the reality of O’Brien’s interview with Rudd. You also might have noticed that his interviews with Abbott are far more benign.

    On the basis of what we saw last night, with his hectoring tone, his repeated interruptions, his facial contortions and derisive sneer, O’Brien has now crossed the divide from objective and well trained journalist to partisan hack. His obsession with only the narrative provided by the Murdoch Press, his complete lack of objectivity and his pursuit of the ‘gotcha!’ question was at the expense of any attempt to range further across any policy matter than the narrow confines of what has been predefined for him by the right wing noise machine.

    As has been pointed out by others, despite having the PM captive for 10+ minutes, not a question passed O’Brien’s lips on the passage of the PPL legislation in Parliament that same afternoon!

    By what standard, other than that written by Rupert Murdoch, can that sort of performance be called professional journalism?

  70. adrian

    This post from ‘The Big Ship’ on Poll Bludger sums up very well the reality of O’Brien’s interview with Rudd. You also might have noticed that his interviews with Abbott are far more benign.

    On the basis of what we saw last night, with his hectoring tone, his repeated interruptions, his facial contortions and derisive sneer, O’Brien has now crossed the divide from objective and well trained journalist to partisan hack. His obsession with only the narrative provided by the Murdoch Press, his complete lack of objectivity and his pursuit of the ‘gotcha!’ question was at the expense of any attempt to range further across any policy matter than the narrow confines of what has been predefined for him by the right wing noise machine.

    As has been pointed out by others, despite having the PM captive for 10+ minutes, not a question passed O’Brien’s lips on the passage of the PPL legislation in Parliament that same afternoon!

    By what standard, other than that written by Rupert Murdoch, can that sort of performance be called professional journalism?

  71. Tim Macknay

    Like I said: beyond hysteria.

  72. Tim Macknay

    Like I said: beyond hysteria.

  73. Bushfire Bill

    Come on guys, Kerry-O tries to destroy any politician who sits across from him. It has always been this way, and always will be this way.

    That’s exactly the problem. He goes in hard, but to what end?

    Do we really need to know how big Kerry’s dick is?

    Or would some elicitation of informaton be nice for a change?

    It’s not a matter of bias either way. It’s a matter of the proper use of valuable, prime-time broadcast capacity on a network that’s supposed to be there for exactly that purpose.

    Posturing, hectoring and lecturing we can get anywhere. Information is supposed to be the ABC’s prerogative, but there’s precious little of it to be seen there.

  74. Bushfire Bill

    Come on guys, Kerry-O tries to destroy any politician who sits across from him. It has always been this way, and always will be this way.

    That’s exactly the problem. He goes in hard, but to what end?

    Do we really need to know how big Kerry’s dick is?

    Or would some elicitation of informaton be nice for a change?

    It’s not a matter of bias either way. It’s a matter of the proper use of valuable, prime-time broadcast capacity on a network that’s supposed to be there for exactly that purpose.

    Posturing, hectoring and lecturing we can get anywhere. Information is supposed to be the ABC’s prerogative, but there’s precious little of it to be seen there.

  75. Geoff Honnor

    “You also might have noticed that his interviews with Abbott are far more benign.”

    Oh FFS! A few weeks ago Abbott was utterly demolished by O’Brien in the now legendary ‘don’t believe anything I say’ interview. I love the whiff of deranged conspiracy theory in the morning…….

  76. Geoff Honnor

    “You also might have noticed that his interviews with Abbott are far more benign.”

    Oh FFS! A few weeks ago Abbott was utterly demolished by O’Brien in the now legendary ‘don’t believe anything I say’ interview. I love the whiff of deranged conspiracy theory in the morning…….

  77. adrian

    ‘Beyond hysterical’ is a nice little line Tim Macknay, but like so much of the guff passed of as comment these days means very little. Is beyond hysterical stark raving mad? If so why not just say that anyone accusing Kerry O’Brien of being a pathetic journalist is stark raving mad<

  78. adrian

    ‘Beyond hysterical’ is a nice little line Tim Macknay, but like so much of the guff passed of as comment these days means very little. Is beyond hysterical stark raving mad? If so why not just say that anyone accusing Kerry O’Brien of being a pathetic journalist is stark raving mad<

  79. adrian

    Now it’s deranged. I see.

    Regarding the Abbott interview, it was clear as many observers commented at the time, that O’Brien put Abbott under very little pressure, and he couldn’t even handle that.
    It also happened to be my perception, but if you want to label it as ‘deranged’ or ‘beyond hysteria’ or even stark raving mad, that’s fine.

  80. adrian

    Now it’s deranged. I see.

    Regarding the Abbott interview, it was clear as many observers commented at the time, that O’Brien put Abbott under very little pressure, and he couldn’t even handle that.
    It also happened to be my perception, but if you want to label it as ‘deranged’ or ‘beyond hysteria’ or even stark raving mad, that’s fine.

  81. Howard Cunningham

    He doesn’t really need to put Abbott under pressure to get something out of him, does he? Doesn’t Rudd, under all circumstances, strike you as a tougher nut to crack?

    The PPL was a non-issue, because it had bipartisan support. Anything more than a cursory “Happy the PPL is going through” at the end of the interview would have been a waste of time.

    If Rudd doesn’t like it, he can put Kerry-O in the Bolta corner. Abbott will talk to anyone under any circumstances, even stooping to debating the Deputy Leader of the Government on breakfast television every week.

    Finally … remember … it’s not paranoia if they are really after you … (sarcasm off)

  82. Howard Cunningham

    He doesn’t really need to put Abbott under pressure to get something out of him, does he? Doesn’t Rudd, under all circumstances, strike you as a tougher nut to crack?

    The PPL was a non-issue, because it had bipartisan support. Anything more than a cursory “Happy the PPL is going through” at the end of the interview would have been a waste of time.

    If Rudd doesn’t like it, he can put Kerry-O in the Bolta corner. Abbott will talk to anyone under any circumstances, even stooping to debating the Deputy Leader of the Government on breakfast television every week.

    Finally … remember … it’s not paranoia if they are really after you … (sarcasm off)

  83. Tim Macknay

    adrian, if you can’t respond to my comment without deliberately misrepresenting what I said then your words aren’t worth the pixels they’re written on.

    A claim that Kerry O’Brien has a pro-Liberal bias is utterly ridiculous, IMHO. When such a claim is based on a single interview, it’s even more ridiculous. When it’s based on a refusal by O’Brien to talk about the Government’s preferred topic in a single interview, it’s yet more ridiculous still. As far as I’m concerned, anyone making such a claim is engaging in the most absurd kind of hyperbole. That is what I meant by “beyond hysterical”. If you prefer the expression “stark raving mad” that’s up to you.

  84. Tim Macknay

    adrian, if you can’t respond to my comment without deliberately misrepresenting what I said then your words aren’t worth the pixels they’re written on.

    A claim that Kerry O’Brien has a pro-Liberal bias is utterly ridiculous, IMHO. When such a claim is based on a single interview, it’s even more ridiculous. When it’s based on a refusal by O’Brien to talk about the Government’s preferred topic in a single interview, it’s yet more ridiculous still. As far as I’m concerned, anyone making such a claim is engaging in the most absurd kind of hyperbole. That is what I meant by “beyond hysterical”. If you prefer the expression “stark raving mad” that’s up to you.

  85. Lefty E

    Jack, Tim et al, I agree there are honourable exceptions (I for one wouldnt accuse Kerry of bias) & there are also some lefty op-edders; nor am I a slavish adherent to a view that media is actualjy that good at “manufacturing” opinion – the public, as Possum notes, are really quite cyncial about the media.

    I also think the contemporary idea of ‘balance’ is rubbish (why give flat-earthers the same stage as reputable scientists? Thats not “balance” – its simply sponsored misinformation).

    But none of the above relieves the 4th estate of its obligations – frankly its got beyond a joke in huge swathes of our media.

    And Jack, the most important point is this: I wouldnt matter if 100% ‘the intellegentsia’ were all lefty culture warriors (I dont agree with that assesssment, incidentally) – the fact is the Right has those in spades.

    This doesn’t relieve the media of its obligations in a democracy either. I think we’re very poorly served in this country for diversity of viewpoints – and even for accuracy and equity of coverage. And I dont think its good enough.

  86. Lefty E

    Jack, Tim et al, I agree there are honourable exceptions (I for one wouldnt accuse Kerry of bias) & there are also some lefty op-edders; nor am I a slavish adherent to a view that media is actualjy that good at “manufacturing” opinion – the public, as Possum notes, are really quite cyncial about the media.

    I also think the contemporary idea of ‘balance’ is rubbish (why give flat-earthers the same stage as reputable scientists? Thats not “balance” – its simply sponsored misinformation).

    But none of the above relieves the 4th estate of its obligations – frankly its got beyond a joke in huge swathes of our media.

    And Jack, the most important point is this: I wouldnt matter if 100% ‘the intellegentsia’ were all lefty culture warriors (I dont agree with that assesssment, incidentally) – the fact is the Right has those in spades.

    This doesn’t relieve the media of its obligations in a democracy either. I think we’re very poorly served in this country for diversity of viewpoints – and even for accuracy and equity of coverage. And I dont think its good enough.

  87. adrian

    Tim, when the ‘government’s preferred topic’ is an historic piece of legislation that has been passed that day, it is not unreasonable to expect that there would be a question on it or that the audience would be more interested in details of this than picking over the entrails of what might have been said at a ball full of journos.
    It’s yet another example of the incestuous nature of the political debate in this country, and the failure of what should be a quality news organisation to rise above the herd mentality.

    If you can’t see the problem with this then OK, but it’s irritating when you and others are so keen to label those who have different perceptions to you on this matter as ‘beyond hysteria’, ‘paranoid’ or whatever.
    Hey I could just as easily label you as gullible or niave, but I’m not going to!

  88. adrian

    Tim, when the ‘government’s preferred topic’ is an historic piece of legislation that has been passed that day, it is not unreasonable to expect that there would be a question on it or that the audience would be more interested in details of this than picking over the entrails of what might have been said at a ball full of journos.
    It’s yet another example of the incestuous nature of the political debate in this country, and the failure of what should be a quality news organisation to rise above the herd mentality.

    If you can’t see the problem with this then OK, but it’s irritating when you and others are so keen to label those who have different perceptions to you on this matter as ‘beyond hysteria’, ‘paranoid’ or whatever.
    Hey I could just as easily label you as gullible or niave, but I’m not going to!

  89. Tim Macknay

    when the ‘government’s preferred topic’ is an historic piece of legislation that has been passed that day, it is not unreasonable to expect that there would be a question on it

    But it is unreasonable to accuse the journalist in question of being a “partisan hack” or “auditioning for preselection for the Libs”. And when the journalist is question is Kerry O’Brien, it’s not just unreasonable, but also absurd.

  90. Tim Macknay

    when the ‘government’s preferred topic’ is an historic piece of legislation that has been passed that day, it is not unreasonable to expect that there would be a question on it

    But it is unreasonable to accuse the journalist in question of being a “partisan hack” or “auditioning for preselection for the Libs”. And when the journalist is question is Kerry O’Brien, it’s not just unreasonable, but also absurd.

  91. Tim Macknay

    Lefty E @43 – I agree about the manifold deficiencies in the political media in Australia at present, which Mr Denmore has discussed in considerable detail on this blog in recent days.
    I think it’s unfortunate that many LP commenters seem to prefer a simplistic, and borderline paranoid, interpretation of why the media is underperforming. This hardly promotes understanding.

    When it comes to things like political interview programmes, I think people would do well to recognise the inherent difficulty in assessing ‘bias’ in adversarial television interviews from the viewer’s own subjective impression. It is all too easy for the viewer’s own bias to colour their preception of the interview. Media studies academics sure as hell don’t evaluate media bias in this way, and for good reason.

  92. Tim Macknay

    Lefty E @43 – I agree about the manifold deficiencies in the political media in Australia at present, which Mr Denmore has discussed in considerable detail on this blog in recent days.
    I think it’s unfortunate that many LP commenters seem to prefer a simplistic, and borderline paranoid, interpretation of why the media is underperforming. This hardly promotes understanding.

    When it comes to things like political interview programmes, I think people would do well to recognise the inherent difficulty in assessing ‘bias’ in adversarial television interviews from the viewer’s own subjective impression. It is all too easy for the viewer’s own bias to colour their preception of the interview. Media studies academics sure as hell don’t evaluate media bias in this way, and for good reason.

  93. Lefty E

    Tim, I’ve enjoyed Mr Denmore’s posts – and I agree a ‘paranoid’ view would only tend to reinforce itself. Thre are clearly many reasons for our unsatisfactry media: the go back to wonership patterns, reduced staffing, media herd mentalities, a bias towards conflictual stories (hence parental leave wont get quite the run RSPT does) etc etc.

    However Im not sure anyone Ive read on LP can be accused of a simplistic “i didnt agree with that, therefore its biased” viewpoint.

    My sense is rather that people are tired of a media that has presumed is has some role in agenda setting (quite openly in the case of the Oz); the sheer relentless weight of pro-coalition talking points as “today’s news”; the clear anti-Rudd agenda of many senior ‘insider’ journos (as opposed to anti-ALP, which I think is far less clear); the almost limitless capacity to fail to apply any real scrutiny to Abbott; te repeated failure of the ABC to maintain a frank and fearless independent position – partly the result of Howard’s stacking; and most gravely, the failure to supply important informtion to the public e.g the complete absence of an intenational comparative perspective on the cliamte debate was one of the most woeful failures in the basic responsibilities of a media in a demcoracy I have ever witnessed in this country.

    My point is simply this: more of should be saying it just isnt good enough, 4th estate. We reckon you’re doing a RUBBISH job. And a huge disservice to Australian democracy in the meatnime.

  94. Lefty E

    Tim, I’ve enjoyed Mr Denmore’s posts – and I agree a ‘paranoid’ view would only tend to reinforce itself. Thre are clearly many reasons for our unsatisfactry media: the go back to wonership patterns, reduced staffing, media herd mentalities, a bias towards conflictual stories (hence parental leave wont get quite the run RSPT does) etc etc.

    However Im not sure anyone Ive read on LP can be accused of a simplistic “i didnt agree with that, therefore its biased” viewpoint.

    My sense is rather that people are tired of a media that has presumed is has some role in agenda setting (quite openly in the case of the Oz); the sheer relentless weight of pro-coalition talking points as “today’s news”; the clear anti-Rudd agenda of many senior ‘insider’ journos (as opposed to anti-ALP, which I think is far less clear); the almost limitless capacity to fail to apply any real scrutiny to Abbott; te repeated failure of the ABC to maintain a frank and fearless independent position – partly the result of Howard’s stacking; and most gravely, the failure to supply important informtion to the public e.g the complete absence of an intenational comparative perspective on the cliamte debate was one of the most woeful failures in the basic responsibilities of a media in a demcoracy I have ever witnessed in this country.

    My point is simply this: more of should be saying it just isnt good enough, 4th estate. We reckon you’re doing a RUBBISH job. And a huge disservice to Australian democracy in the meatnime.

  95. Mark

    @47 – agree wholeheartedly, Lefty E. It’s not primarily bias (outside News Limited) but structural, and that extends to the illegitimacy of reporting complex facts and policies, etc. in favour of soundbites, gotchas, the narrative, etc, etc.

    With regard to O’Brien, I didn’t see the 7.30 Report last night, but I did see the interview with Abbott and he clearly knew he was setting a trap for the latter.

    I also agree that the style of interrogation-centric interview (and I think the whole Watergate ‘what did the President know, and when did the President know it?’ style of journalism has also had a long shadow) is not the best, but that’s my critique of O’Brien (and the fact that he often asks the wrong questions, even on his own terms), not partisan bias. If memory serves, he used to work for the Labor party in government. Whether or not he dislikes Rudd, I don’t know, but I really don’t think there’s any overt bias at work.

    The problem with tv interviewers is that they seem to act more like barristers prosecuting a case and trying to trick a witness into answering a question by posing it in 600 different ways. Leigh Sales and Tony Jones are also guilty of this. Frankly, a lot of the time it’s boring.

    What they do need to remember is that the public interest is wider than whether they can get a pollie to say something off message or make a ‘gaffe’.

  96. Mark

    @47 – agree wholeheartedly, Lefty E. It’s not primarily bias (outside News Limited) but structural, and that extends to the illegitimacy of reporting complex facts and policies, etc. in favour of soundbites, gotchas, the narrative, etc, etc.

    With regard to O’Brien, I didn’t see the 7.30 Report last night, but I did see the interview with Abbott and he clearly knew he was setting a trap for the latter.

    I also agree that the style of interrogation-centric interview (and I think the whole Watergate ‘what did the President know, and when did the President know it?’ style of journalism has also had a long shadow) is not the best, but that’s my critique of O’Brien (and the fact that he often asks the wrong questions, even on his own terms), not partisan bias. If memory serves, he used to work for the Labor party in government. Whether or not he dislikes Rudd, I don’t know, but I really don’t think there’s any overt bias at work.

    The problem with tv interviewers is that they seem to act more like barristers prosecuting a case and trying to trick a witness into answering a question by posing it in 600 different ways. Leigh Sales and Tony Jones are also guilty of this. Frankly, a lot of the time it’s boring.

    What they do need to remember is that the public interest is wider than whether they can get a pollie to say something off message or make a ‘gaffe’.

  97. Tim Macknay

    The problem with tv interviewers is that they seem to act more like barristers prosecuting a case and trying to trick a witness into answering a question by posing it in 600 different ways. Leigh Sales and Tony Jones are also guilty of this. Frankly, a lot of the time it’s boring.

    Yep, and it also has the counterproductive side effect of making politicans very averse to giving straight answers to questions.

  98. Tim Macknay

    The problem with tv interviewers is that they seem to act more like barristers prosecuting a case and trying to trick a witness into answering a question by posing it in 600 different ways. Leigh Sales and Tony Jones are also guilty of this. Frankly, a lot of the time it’s boring.

    Yep, and it also has the counterproductive side effect of making politicans very averse to giving straight answers to questions.

  99. Fran Barlow

    I suppose for me Mark, the the most important issues turn on whether the questions being asked will lead to information being elicited that:

    a) is in the interest of the public to know (as opposed to just “interesting”, “titillating”)
    b) is not already widely known and generally agreed by the likely audience

    Trying to narrow the scope for dissembling and evasion is a useful thing, assuming the end point meets the above tests

  100. Fran Barlow

    I suppose for me Mark, the the most important issues turn on whether the questions being asked will lead to information being elicited that:

    a) is in the interest of the public to know (as opposed to just “interesting”, “titillating”)
    b) is not already widely known and generally agreed by the likely audience

    Trying to narrow the scope for dissembling and evasion is a useful thing, assuming the end point meets the above tests

  101. Mark

    Agreed, Tim.

  102. Mark

    Agreed, Tim.

  103. Patricia WA

    A Broadcasting Legend

    Informally I hear from Mr. David Marr
    There’s nothing that one could call bizarre
    In last night’s conduct of Kerry O’Brien.
    It was simply typical of an aging lion.

    It should be seen as a last and mighty roar
    Before death arrives and he is heard no more.
    Wrongly interpreted by some as hubris
    He’s just suffering the ‘fading star’ neurosis.

    Of late he feels the loss of former power
    And seeks out easy game to torture and devour
    Before his audience, and doesn’t give a damn
    Whether or not his victim really is a lamb.

    So he’ll amble off, with mind and faculties grown dim.
    But will he see, as friendly childhood ‘forests’ call to him,
    The vengeful wolf who lopes behind with loathing,
    In his mouth a bloodied skin, yesterday’s protective clothing?

  104. Patricia WA

    A Broadcasting Legend

    Informally I hear from Mr. David Marr
    There’s nothing that one could call bizarre
    In last night’s conduct of Kerry O’Brien.
    It was simply typical of an aging lion.

    It should be seen as a last and mighty roar
    Before death arrives and he is heard no more.
    Wrongly interpreted by some as hubris
    He’s just suffering the ‘fading star’ neurosis.

    Of late he feels the loss of former power
    And seeks out easy game to torture and devour
    Before his audience, and doesn’t give a damn
    Whether or not his victim really is a lamb.

    So he’ll amble off, with mind and faculties grown dim.
    But will he see, as friendly childhood ‘forests’ call to him,
    The vengeful wolf who lopes behind with loathing,
    In his mouth a bloodied skin, yesterday’s protective clothing?

  105. adrian

    Hey Patricia WA, you bring a certain class to this ‘umble blog.

  106. adrian

    Hey Patricia WA, you bring a certain class to this ‘umble blog.

  107. Howard Cunningham

    Gotcha journalism rates.

    People watch it.

    Do something about it.

  108. Howard Cunningham

    Gotcha journalism rates.

    People watch it.

    Do something about it.

  109. Zorronsky

    What I saw in the O’Brien interview was a PM who easily defended all of the accusations Kerry fired at him, and in addition, never lost the thread when Kerry added question after question over the top of the PM’s attempts to answer. When Kerry sensed that the answer didn’t suit him ,he piled more rhetoric on top in an effort to unsettle Rudd, but in fact, began to stutter and stumble himself. For a moment or two I thought it was a set-up to bring out a Rudd most of us could appreciate.
    So although I’ve had a bit to say about the shocking deal he’s been getting from most of the media, I’m very confidant now that as time progresses the PM will only get stronger on song and I for one wont be getting sidetracked by those correspondents not worthy of their voice in the MSM.

  110. Zorronsky

    What I saw in the O’Brien interview was a PM who easily defended all of the accusations Kerry fired at him, and in addition, never lost the thread when Kerry added question after question over the top of the PM’s attempts to answer. When Kerry sensed that the answer didn’t suit him ,he piled more rhetoric on top in an effort to unsettle Rudd, but in fact, began to stutter and stumble himself. For a moment or two I thought it was a set-up to bring out a Rudd most of us could appreciate.
    So although I’ve had a bit to say about the shocking deal he’s been getting from most of the media, I’m very confidant now that as time progresses the PM will only get stronger on song and I for one wont be getting sidetracked by those correspondents not worthy of their voice in the MSM.

  111. Tim Macknay

    Very nice, Patricia WA @52. The last verse is particularly evocative.

  112. Tim Macknay

    Very nice, Patricia WA @52. The last verse is particularly evocative.

  113. Patricia WA

    Tim, don’t get too excited. It is a fiction! It reflects my state of mind rather than the PM’s! It helped me feel a bit better, that’s all.

  114. Patricia WA

    Tim, don’t get too excited. It is a fiction! It reflects my state of mind rather than the PM’s! It helped me feel a bit better, that’s all.

  115. Mercurius

    To the original question posed on this thread: What’s wrong with the media this election year?

    News Limited hasn’t paywalled its online excrescences yet, that’s what’s wrong. The sooner that Aegean Stable is walled up and buried under its own slop, the sooner we’ll be protected from the smell…

  116. Mercurius

    To the original question posed on this thread: What’s wrong with the media this election year?

    News Limited hasn’t paywalled its online excrescences yet, that’s what’s wrong. The sooner that Aegean Stable is walled up and buried under its own slop, the sooner we’ll be protected from the smell…

  117. john

    @38

    He didn’t even lean on Abbott that hard.

    Abbott’s just weak.

  118. john

    @38

    He didn’t even lean on Abbott that hard.

    Abbott’s just weak.

  119. Elise

    Nasking @22 and Patricia WA @24, agree totally with Kerry O’Brian on 7:30 Report and the Bash Rudd campaign.

    He has been getting worse and worse, as if he has some real bee in his bonnet. Even better half, who instinctively dislikes Rudd’s style, thinks Kerry has lost the plot in terms of useful interview questions.

    Kerry’s main point seems to be “you stuffed up…just admit it” over and over and over. Well, OK… and what else would he like to know? Or does he just want to endlessly ram it down Rudd’s throat and make a nice pate out of him, afterwards?

  120. Elise

    Nasking @22 and Patricia WA @24, agree totally with Kerry O’Brian on 7:30 Report and the Bash Rudd campaign.

    He has been getting worse and worse, as if he has some real bee in his bonnet. Even better half, who instinctively dislikes Rudd’s style, thinks Kerry has lost the plot in terms of useful interview questions.

    Kerry’s main point seems to be “you stuffed up…just admit it” over and over and over. Well, OK… and what else would he like to know? Or does he just want to endlessly ram it down Rudd’s throat and make a nice pate out of him, afterwards?

  121. CMMC

    “borderline paranoid” for recognizing a pattern of behaviour and naming it as such?

    I don’t think your sentiments are well enough informed (well, of course not, they’re just sentiments)to make such judgments.

    You need to be attuned to the nuances of public discourse. Just yesterday a Radio National news bulletin referred to “Federal Labor” as opposed to “the government”.

  122. CMMC

    “borderline paranoid” for recognizing a pattern of behaviour and naming it as such?

    I don’t think your sentiments are well enough informed (well, of course not, they’re just sentiments)to make such judgments.

    You need to be attuned to the nuances of public discourse. Just yesterday a Radio National news bulletin referred to “Federal Labor” as opposed to “the government”.

  123. Tim Macknay

    I don’t think your sentiments are well enough informed (well, of course not, they’re just sentiments)to make such judgments

    Pompous claptrap.

    You need to be attuned to the nuances of public discourse.

    One characteristic of paranoia is a delusion that one’s perception is more acute. You’ve got it in spades.

  124. Tim Macknay

    I don’t think your sentiments are well enough informed (well, of course not, they’re just sentiments)to make such judgments

    Pompous claptrap.

    You need to be attuned to the nuances of public discourse.

    One characteristic of paranoia is a delusion that one’s perception is more acute. You’ve got it in spades.

  125. Patricia WA

    Elise – further to my comment @ 24 and ff about no adverse comments appearing on the 7.30 Report blog after 8.10 EST last night and my suspicion there had been an avalanche. I wrote to the ABC several times during the day about this. Late this afternoon they appeared, a stream of criticism of K O’B from last night and through this morning with several suggesting his resignation. A few of the usual pro comments, but I wonder how many more antis there were and why it took so long to ‘moderate’ them – 18 hours for some.

  126. Patricia WA

    Elise – further to my comment @ 24 and ff about no adverse comments appearing on the 7.30 Report blog after 8.10 EST last night and my suspicion there had been an avalanche. I wrote to the ABC several times during the day about this. Late this afternoon they appeared, a stream of criticism of K O’B from last night and through this morning with several suggesting his resignation. A few of the usual pro comments, but I wonder how many more antis there were and why it took so long to ‘moderate’ them – 18 hours for some.

  127. Mark

    @63 – Patricia WA, I can tell you for a fact, knowing a couple of people who have worked at ABC Online that most of their employees work 9-5pm, so many comments left over night are always going to appear with a considerable lag. The ABC doesn’t allow comments to be posted before moderation, for legal reasons.

  128. Mark

    @63 – Patricia WA, I can tell you for a fact, knowing a couple of people who have worked at ABC Online that most of their employees work 9-5pm, so many comments left over night are always going to appear with a considerable lag. The ABC doesn’t allow comments to be posted before moderation, for legal reasons.

  129. Mr Denmore

    O’Brien is not a closet Liberal, I can attest to that. I’ve posted elsewhere on how I saw him at the Holy Grail in Canberra one cold night in May or August last century after a federal budget, in a fist fight with the toad-like Piers Akerman. Kerry had Piers by the tie and was slugging him repeatedly in the face. Best entertainment I’d seen in Canberra all the many times I’d been there for the lock-up.

    As a journalist, O’Brien is a professional. Like all television journalists, he’s part entertainer. And I imagine with the growing commercialism of the ABC, he’s under some pressure to lift the conflict quotient.

    Purely in media impact terms, I think he’s having a bit of a purple patch, what with the cornering of Abbott on his chronic dissembling, getting the rise out of Rudd over the ETS and the “7.30 Land”” rant and now his over-the-top assault on the PM about his failure to communicate properly.

    This is good ratings-drawing television. It’s not current affairs, of course. But I don’t really think that’s his brief anymore. Television has been doing it for years, having presenters seeking to trap politicians into a “gaffe” or a dummy spit. Richard Carleton made an art form of it, before he sold out to 60 Minutes. Now you see it with O’Brien and Jones and Sales.

    The journos will tell you they do this because politicians these days are drilled so well by their media advisors to stay on message and not to take the bait that they will not say anything worthwhile unless they are thrown off balance. So the journos seek to probe for a hole in the PR wall by being provocative. It becomes a bit of a game of cat and mouse. This is not to excuse it, of course, but just to remark on what drives it.

    Institutional bias is something else. I’m fairly sure the ABC has shifted rightwards since the Howard stacking of the board and the paranoid attempts by Alston and Abetz to engineer faux “balance” with stopwatch he said-she said journalism, the bussing in of Young Liberals to whoop it up on Q and A and the free online real estate given to paid cultural warriors and loony libertarians on the Drum.

    Rudd made the mistake of not taking an axe to the board earlier. He won no favours from the right for cosying up to them and trying to appear non-partisan. So my take is we need a revival of the populist left in media and politics. Take the gloves off and get stuck in.

  130. Mr Denmore

    O’Brien is not a closet Liberal, I can attest to that. I’ve posted elsewhere on how I saw him at the Holy Grail in Canberra one cold night in May or August last century after a federal budget, in a fist fight with the toad-like Piers Akerman. Kerry had Piers by the tie and was slugging him repeatedly in the face. Best entertainment I’d seen in Canberra all the many times I’d been there for the lock-up.

    As a journalist, O’Brien is a professional. Like all television journalists, he’s part entertainer. And I imagine with the growing commercialism of the ABC, he’s under some pressure to lift the conflict quotient.

    Purely in media impact terms, I think he’s having a bit of a purple patch, what with the cornering of Abbott on his chronic dissembling, getting the rise out of Rudd over the ETS and the “7.30 Land”” rant and now his over-the-top assault on the PM about his failure to communicate properly.

    This is good ratings-drawing television. It’s not current affairs, of course. But I don’t really think that’s his brief anymore. Television has been doing it for years, having presenters seeking to trap politicians into a “gaffe” or a dummy spit. Richard Carleton made an art form of it, before he sold out to 60 Minutes. Now you see it with O’Brien and Jones and Sales.

    The journos will tell you they do this because politicians these days are drilled so well by their media advisors to stay on message and not to take the bait that they will not say anything worthwhile unless they are thrown off balance. So the journos seek to probe for a hole in the PR wall by being provocative. It becomes a bit of a game of cat and mouse. This is not to excuse it, of course, but just to remark on what drives it.

    Institutional bias is something else. I’m fairly sure the ABC has shifted rightwards since the Howard stacking of the board and the paranoid attempts by Alston and Abetz to engineer faux “balance” with stopwatch he said-she said journalism, the bussing in of Young Liberals to whoop it up on Q and A and the free online real estate given to paid cultural warriors and loony libertarians on the Drum.

    Rudd made the mistake of not taking an axe to the board earlier. He won no favours from the right for cosying up to them and trying to appear non-partisan. So my take is we need a revival of the populist left in media and politics. Take the gloves off and get stuck in.

  131. Patricia WA

    Okay Mark, if that’s the case I can see that staff working with the 7.30 Report would probably start midday and sign out soon after the program went to air. But surely a news commentary feature which Mr. Denmore describes as a ‘good ratings program’ could handle feedback from its audience better than this?

    I guess I’m still pretty stirred up by my disappointment with K O’B who has done a good job over the years. Sad to see him join the frenzied baying of the media pack.

  132. Patricia WA

    Okay Mark, if that’s the case I can see that staff working with the 7.30 Report would probably start midday and sign out soon after the program went to air. But surely a news commentary feature which Mr. Denmore describes as a ‘good ratings program’ could handle feedback from its audience better than this?

    I guess I’m still pretty stirred up by my disappointment with K O’B who has done a good job over the years. Sad to see him join the frenzied baying of the media pack.

  133. Mark

    @66 – Patricia WA, it’s a question of resources, which are stretched very thin at the ABC. You have to pay people more (and rightly so) for working night shifts!

  134. Mark

    @66 – Patricia WA, it’s a question of resources, which are stretched very thin at the ABC. You have to pay people more (and rightly so) for working night shifts!

  135. adrian

    Different perceptions OK, but it’s interesting that only those defending the ABC have resorted to personal abuse.

    ‘Rudd made the mistake of not taking an axe to the board earlier.’
    Indeed, Mr Denmore, but do you have any insights into the power of the board and how that power is wielded?

  136. adrian

    Different perceptions OK, but it’s interesting that only those defending the ABC have resorted to personal abuse.

    ‘Rudd made the mistake of not taking an axe to the board earlier.’
    Indeed, Mr Denmore, but do you have any insights into the power of the board and how that power is wielded?

  137. Jacques de Molay

    “You (Richard Carleton) had an important place in Australian society on the ABC and you gave it up to be a pop star…with a big cheque…and now you’re on to this sort of stuff. That shows what a 24 carat pissant you are, Richard, that’s for sure”

    – Paul Keating

  138. Jacques de Molay

    “You (Richard Carleton) had an important place in Australian society on the ABC and you gave it up to be a pop star…with a big cheque…and now you’re on to this sort of stuff. That shows what a 24 carat pissant you are, Richard, that’s for sure”

    – Paul Keating

  139. Paul Burns

    I’m going to stick up for K’OB. He gives all pollies a hard time, whatever party they come from, and so he should because we can’t trust any of the bastards. And Rudd has stuffed up and its mostly his own work though there’s no doubt at all the MSM has exaggerated the stuff up for their own pernicious purposes.Basically, he’s put himself in this position, and the sad thing about it is he didn’t have to.

  140. Paul Burns

    I’m going to stick up for K’OB. He gives all pollies a hard time, whatever party they come from, and so he should because we can’t trust any of the bastards. And Rudd has stuffed up and its mostly his own work though there’s no doubt at all the MSM has exaggerated the stuff up for their own pernicious purposes.Basically, he’s put himself in this position, and the sad thing about it is he didn’t have to.

  141. Chris

    Mark @ 67 – Or they could do what many other sites, even profit driven ones, do and that is to let participants on the forums build up reputation. And then progressively allow them more moderation privileges (perhaps starting out by being double checked and a bit of online training). There are plenty of people willing to volunteer to do “work” as part of being in an online community.

  142. Chris

    Mark @ 67 – Or they could do what many other sites, even profit driven ones, do and that is to let participants on the forums build up reputation. And then progressively allow them more moderation privileges (perhaps starting out by being double checked and a bit of online training). There are plenty of people willing to volunteer to do “work” as part of being in an online community.

  143. Mark

    @71 – to be fair to the ABC, that’s been considered, I understand, Chris. But legal considerations tend to be uppermost in their minds. I’d also note that comments on ABC articles on line tend not to be from a consistent commenting community (as with a blog) but from a disparate range of individuals interested in individual items, which is different from having a commitment to a particular site.

  144. Mark

    @71 – to be fair to the ABC, that’s been considered, I understand, Chris. But legal considerations tend to be uppermost in their minds. I’d also note that comments on ABC articles on line tend not to be from a consistent commenting community (as with a blog) but from a disparate range of individuals interested in individual items, which is different from having a commitment to a particular site.

  145. Tim Macknay

    Different perceptions OK, but it’s interesting that only those defending the ABC have resorted to personal abuse.

    I assume this is aimed at me. Honestly, this is really pathetic. Care to identify the “personal abuse”? And don’t say “beyond hysterical” – that was not “personal abuse”, it was a characterisation of the irrationality of a particular claim.

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I haven’t “defended the ABC”, whatever that means. I only pointed out that a specific claim, i.e. that Kerry O’Brien is a Liberal stooge, was ludicrous. My point stands.

  146. Tim Macknay

    Different perceptions OK, but it’s interesting that only those defending the ABC have resorted to personal abuse.

    I assume this is aimed at me. Honestly, this is really pathetic. Care to identify the “personal abuse”? And don’t say “beyond hysterical” – that was not “personal abuse”, it was a characterisation of the irrationality of a particular claim.

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I haven’t “defended the ABC”, whatever that means. I only pointed out that a specific claim, i.e. that Kerry O’Brien is a Liberal stooge, was ludicrous. My point stands.

  147. Chris

    Mark – yes in my experience the ABC online people have been very willing to experiment and excellent about responding to suggestions from the community. Getting past the lawyers is challenging in large organisations. But I don’t see the funding environment getting much better for them, and running the community interactive parts of their website for only 12 hours a day is not going to work very well in the longer term.

  148. Chris

    Mark – yes in my experience the ABC online people have been very willing to experiment and excellent about responding to suggestions from the community. Getting past the lawyers is challenging in large organisations. But I don’t see the funding environment getting much better for them, and running the community interactive parts of their website for only 12 hours a day is not going to work very well in the longer term.

  149. Ken Lovell

    One problem is that people like O’Brien have to do one or more interviews almost every day. There is no way they can be properly briefed about the issues in question, so they have to adopt a cross-examiner technique as mentioned by Mark. The objective is to cause the interviewee to lose their cool or make a damaging admission or do something else newsworthy. This battle of wits becomes an end in itself, with both parties no doubt having a chuckle at the end once the cameras stop rolling.

    Unfortunately this gives us bugger-all useful information about the issues and what the interviewee has actually done or intends to do, but I don’t see how things can change as long as politicians are expected to spend a significant part of their entire lives talking to the media in one form or another.

  150. Ken Lovell

    One problem is that people like O’Brien have to do one or more interviews almost every day. There is no way they can be properly briefed about the issues in question, so they have to adopt a cross-examiner technique as mentioned by Mark. The objective is to cause the interviewee to lose their cool or make a damaging admission or do something else newsworthy. This battle of wits becomes an end in itself, with both parties no doubt having a chuckle at the end once the cameras stop rolling.

    Unfortunately this gives us bugger-all useful information about the issues and what the interviewee has actually done or intends to do, but I don’t see how things can change as long as politicians are expected to spend a significant part of their entire lives talking to the media in one form or another.

  151. Paul Burns

    Well, if you think Rudd had a chuckle with Kerry over that ETS inteview a few weeks ago ….

  152. Paul Burns

    Well, if you think Rudd had a chuckle with Kerry over that ETS inteview a few weeks ago ….

  153. su

    Kerry had Piers by the tie and was slugging him repeatedly in the face.

    Sadly this must have been before the youtube era. You don’t happen to know what it was that got up Kezza’s goat?

    I have often wondered what the arms race between journalists and media advisors has done to the quality of information we receive and on what you have said, it seems like it is an unhelpful stalemate that is serving noone particularly well.

  154. su

    Kerry had Piers by the tie and was slugging him repeatedly in the face.

    Sadly this must have been before the youtube era. You don’t happen to know what it was that got up Kezza’s goat?

    I have often wondered what the arms race between journalists and media advisors has done to the quality of information we receive and on what you have said, it seems like it is an unhelpful stalemate that is serving noone particularly well.

  155. Fine

    This may be of interest to some.

    http://www.roninfilms.com.au/read/3502.html

    It concerns a documentary about Palestine which the ABC refuses to screen because of editorial issues relating to ‘impartiality’. This is an ABC policy which came into play a couple of years ago and is an excuse the ABC uses not to screen political documentaries. The government broadcaster must be seen to be impartial at all times. Goddess forfend that anyone should be upset.

  156. Fine

    This may be of interest to some.

    http://www.roninfilms.com.au/read/3502.html

    It concerns a documentary about Palestine which the ABC refuses to screen because of editorial issues relating to ‘impartiality’. This is an ABC policy which came into play a couple of years ago and is an excuse the ABC uses not to screen political documentaries. The government broadcaster must be seen to be impartial at all times. Goddess forfend that anyone should be upset.

  157. Mr Denmore

    su @77, no it was back in the mid-90s before YouTube. I don’t know what the fight was about. I hadn’t even noticed them till I heard chairs getting knocked over. No doubt, Akerman was accusing Kerry of being a Labor stooge.

  158. Mr Denmore

    su @77, no it was back in the mid-90s before YouTube. I don’t know what the fight was about. I hadn’t even noticed them till I heard chairs getting knocked over. No doubt, Akerman was accusing Kerry of being a Labor stooge.

  159. Patrickb

    @20
    “Canny communicators exploit that and float paper boats on “the waves” – and the gullible journos provide real-time commentary on these heroic, but insignificant, voyages.”
    Literally, witness the number of dangerous but pointless voyages undertaken for the promise of a media pay off (Australian, US and Dutch young women all sailing or would sail around the world for the publicity).

  160. Patrickb

    @20
    “Canny communicators exploit that and float paper boats on “the waves” – and the gullible journos provide real-time commentary on these heroic, but insignificant, voyages.”
    Literally, witness the number of dangerous but pointless voyages undertaken for the promise of a media pay off (Australian, US and Dutch young women all sailing or would sail around the world for the publicity).

  161. nasking

    Speaking of the media acting like a gang of thugs & boot boys…I watched another pathetic Rudd bash-fest today on Sky News.

    Some feel that Paul Kelly is “balanced”. I see him as another Murdoch tricky dick who tries to push the Labor govt. into a corner whilst giving the impression of balance. Crafty stuff:

    Caustic Barnaby & the Old Pontificator Tag Team

    http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/caustic-barnaby-the-old-pontificator-tag-team/

    I noticed today that the Newspoll weekend was serving up plenty of Rudd bashing. Per usual.

    One excruciatingly long show on Sky News, The Nation with David Speers, offered up a tag team consisting of Paul Kelly (pontificating editor at large of The Australian)…and Barnaby Joyce (the oft joyless & crimson-faced National party Senator).

    Absent was any Labor party representative to defend their title.

    Cheers
    N’

  162. nasking

    Speaking of the media acting like a gang of thugs & boot boys…I watched another pathetic Rudd bash-fest today on Sky News.

    Some feel that Paul Kelly is “balanced”. I see him as another Murdoch tricky dick who tries to push the Labor govt. into a corner whilst giving the impression of balance. Crafty stuff:

    Caustic Barnaby & the Old Pontificator Tag Team

    http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/caustic-barnaby-the-old-pontificator-tag-team/

    I noticed today that the Newspoll weekend was serving up plenty of Rudd bashing. Per usual.

    One excruciatingly long show on Sky News, The Nation with David Speers, offered up a tag team consisting of Paul Kelly (pontificating editor at large of The Australian)…and Barnaby Joyce (the oft joyless & crimson-faced National party Senator).

    Absent was any Labor party representative to defend their title.

    Cheers
    N’

  163. Patrickb

    I think it’s worth considering that an orator’s best rhetoric may be brought to the fore when they are asked difficult questions or asked in a combative way to explain unpopular decisions. Personally I don’t think there’s much to be had by having the PM explain the benefits of the PPL scheme to KO’B. Better to get a few curly ones on the mining tax so he can let loose on the fat arsed Lear Jet flying rent seekers.

  164. Patrickb

    I think it’s worth considering that an orator’s best rhetoric may be brought to the fore when they are asked difficult questions or asked in a combative way to explain unpopular decisions. Personally I don’t think there’s much to be had by having the PM explain the benefits of the PPL scheme to KO’B. Better to get a few curly ones on the mining tax so he can let loose on the fat arsed Lear Jet flying rent seekers.

  165. Jacques de Molay

    nasking,

    I think you might be overdoing things a bit. I would say Paul “fashioning a new narrative” Kelly would be centre-right, Joyce far-right and the Get Up guy and the lady were clearly left-wing. The guy from Get Up and even Paul Kelly put Joyce in his box a few times whenever he threatened to start going too far. Most of the time he had his head down and looked almost too embarrassed, everyone else was sensible and rational and he had no fellow far-right extremists to bounce off of. There wasn’t anyone from the Liberal party on there either. While it’s disappointing anyone (Sky or ABC) gives Joyce a soapbox I understand why they do it and it’s got nothing to do with raising the quality of the debate.

    While Sky News is centre-right I have been seeing signs of improvement. Peter van Onselen’s Contrarians show on Friday was again IMO more balanced than anything on the ABC. When the discussion turned to border protection I liked that VO said Tom Switzer wasn’t allowed to speak because the Libs policy in VO’s words is an “absolute joke” and therfore they didn’t deserve to be heard on the subject and let the Union lady fire away. Earlier in the show VO in passing described himself as centre-right which got a rise out of the odious Switzer.

    Did you see Saturday Agenda? VO’s interview with Bob Brown was excellent. You could see he was genuinely shocked Rudd has refused to speak with Bob Brown for more than a year (not since April ’09) which is obviously disgraceful. But of course the ETS blowing up in the ALP’s face was the Greens fault (according to the ALP drones at places like Poll Bludger).

  166. Jacques de Molay

    nasking,

    I think you might be overdoing things a bit. I would say Paul “fashioning a new narrative” Kelly would be centre-right, Joyce far-right and the Get Up guy and the lady were clearly left-wing. The guy from Get Up and even Paul Kelly put Joyce in his box a few times whenever he threatened to start going too far. Most of the time he had his head down and looked almost too embarrassed, everyone else was sensible and rational and he had no fellow far-right extremists to bounce off of. There wasn’t anyone from the Liberal party on there either. While it’s disappointing anyone (Sky or ABC) gives Joyce a soapbox I understand why they do it and it’s got nothing to do with raising the quality of the debate.

    While Sky News is centre-right I have been seeing signs of improvement. Peter van Onselen’s Contrarians show on Friday was again IMO more balanced than anything on the ABC. When the discussion turned to border protection I liked that VO said Tom Switzer wasn’t allowed to speak because the Libs policy in VO’s words is an “absolute joke” and therfore they didn’t deserve to be heard on the subject and let the Union lady fire away. Earlier in the show VO in passing described himself as centre-right which got a rise out of the odious Switzer.

    Did you see Saturday Agenda? VO’s interview with Bob Brown was excellent. You could see he was genuinely shocked Rudd has refused to speak with Bob Brown for more than a year (not since April ’09) which is obviously disgraceful. But of course the ETS blowing up in the ALP’s face was the Greens fault (according to the ALP drones at places like Poll Bludger).

  167. Paul Burns

    So Rudd wouldn’t talk to a senate minority party presumably because he was sulking about the ETS? A) it was extremely chilkdish behaviour and we don’t need a child as Prime Minister (which rules out the infantile Abbott as well); B) It was unprofessional, but Rudd has already proven himself to be utterly incompetent so that’s no surprise. Why the Caucus doesn’t dump this useless prick and put Gillard in his pleace beats me.

  168. Paul Burns

    So Rudd wouldn’t talk to a senate minority party presumably because he was sulking about the ETS? A) it was extremely chilkdish behaviour and we don’t need a child as Prime Minister (which rules out the infantile Abbott as well); B) It was unprofessional, but Rudd has already proven himself to be utterly incompetent so that’s no surprise. Why the Caucus doesn’t dump this useless prick and put Gillard in his pleace beats me.

  169. murph the surf.

    Mr Denmore wrote …”loony libertarians on the Drum.”
    .
    They must have been babbling on then we assume?
    Sin bin for Mr Denmore- coming from the moderator for all those worried about anyone anywhere being slighted.
    Just in case LP is focused on being consistent of course.

  170. murph the surf.

    Mr Denmore wrote …”loony libertarians on the Drum.”
    .
    They must have been babbling on then we assume?
    Sin bin for Mr Denmore- coming from the moderator for all those worried about anyone anywhere being slighted.
    Just in case LP is focused on being consistent of course.