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134 responses to “Saturday Salon”

  1. Nana Levu
  2. Nana Levu
  3. kuke

    Finally, the world cup is heating up… unfortunately so are the oceans… Oceans choking on CO2, face deadly changes: study.

  4. kuke

    Finally, the world cup is heating up… unfortunately so are the oceans… Oceans choking on CO2, face deadly changes: study.

  5. Jacques de Molay

    A couple of interesting links.

    “Conservative groups push for movie to be banned”:

    A COALITION of conservative groups and senators has launched a last-ditch legal bid to have the “most notorious film of all time” Salo, or The 120 Days of Sodom re-banned.

    The coalition opposed to the R18+ classification of the film includes Senator McGauran, FamilyVoice Australia, the Australian Christian Lobby and Liberal senator Guy Barnett.

    A 12-year ban on the film was lifted in April this year by the Classification Board.

    Federal Home Affairs Minister Brendan O’Connor quickly ordered the decision be reviewed. While the Classification Review Board agreed to lift the ban in May, a minority of the board strongly dissented because of the film’s depictions of apparent under-age and forced sex.

    After the sold-out 1976 screening in Adelaide , the film was banned until 1993, when it was released to art-house cinemas. SA banned it again in 1994, with other states following in 1998.

    Shock Records finally won its legal battle to have the film released this year.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/entertainment/movies/conservative-groups-push-for-movie-to-be-banned/story-e6freeuc-1225881561477

    Alexander’s tale of having to deal with that most unsavoury Mr Rudd:

    “Downer says Rudd driven by need for fame”

    Former foreign minister Alexander Downer says Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is driven by a desire for fame and to be on TV, not by any political philosophy or policy prescription.

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1072740/downer-says-rudd-driven-by-need-for-fame

  6. Jacques de Molay

    A couple of interesting links.

    “Conservative groups push for movie to be banned”:

    A COALITION of conservative groups and senators has launched a last-ditch legal bid to have the “most notorious film of all time” Salo, or The 120 Days of Sodom re-banned.

    The coalition opposed to the R18+ classification of the film includes Senator McGauran, FamilyVoice Australia, the Australian Christian Lobby and Liberal senator Guy Barnett.

    A 12-year ban on the film was lifted in April this year by the Classification Board.

    Federal Home Affairs Minister Brendan O’Connor quickly ordered the decision be reviewed. While the Classification Review Board agreed to lift the ban in May, a minority of the board strongly dissented because of the film’s depictions of apparent under-age and forced sex.

    After the sold-out 1976 screening in Adelaide , the film was banned until 1993, when it was released to art-house cinemas. SA banned it again in 1994, with other states following in 1998.

    Shock Records finally won its legal battle to have the film released this year.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/entertainment/movies/conservative-groups-push-for-movie-to-be-banned/story-e6freeuc-1225881561477

    Alexander’s tale of having to deal with that most unsavoury Mr Rudd:

    “Downer says Rudd driven by need for fame”

    Former foreign minister Alexander Downer says Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is driven by a desire for fame and to be on TV, not by any political philosophy or policy prescription.

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1072740/downer-says-rudd-driven-by-need-for-fame

  7. tigtog

    @Nana Levu,

    Why has the SMH put Obama’s name in the headline? The Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act (PCNAA) bill is proposed by Senator Joe Lieberman (Ind, CN), and would give the authority to the office of the President, not to Obama as Obama.

    Still, the SMH actually links to external websites in this story! Here’s ZD-Net’s take.

  8. tigtog

    @Nana Levu,

    Why has the SMH put Obama’s name in the headline? The Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act (PCNAA) bill is proposed by Senator Joe Lieberman (Ind, CN), and would give the authority to the office of the President, not to Obama as Obama.

    Still, the SMH actually links to external websites in this story! Here’s ZD-Net’s take.

  9. Nana Levu

    tigtog Thanks. Yes I had noticed it was proposed by rat Joe Lieberman.

  10. Nana Levu

    tigtog Thanks. Yes I had noticed it was proposed by rat Joe Lieberman.

  11. tigtog

    ZDNet also has a feature on the AG’s proposal for a “data retention regime” in Australia.

    Another industry source told ZDNet Australia it was “a little bit cute” for the Attorney-General’s media advisor to say that the Federal Government wasn’t looking at a proposal to require ISPs retain “web browsing history”.

    “I think they’re being a little bit cute when they say they want the source and the destination IP addresses for internet sessions [while] saying ‘we’re not really asking for web browsing history’,” the source said.

    “Now sure, if you go into Internet Explorer you can go into internet options and you can get your ‘history’, but you know, carriers don’t really use URLs, they use IP addresses, and it’s the IP address that translates to a URL and vice versa. They’re one and the same.”

    There was more material in a data set the Attorney-General’s Department gave telecommunications companies that the source found a “bit frightening”. “They want allied personal information with that account, including, [the department] said, passport numbers.”

    “Why the hell an ISP would ask anybody for a passport number is beyond me,” the source said. “And I am not aware of any telephony requirements that ask for passport details.

    “So they’re asking for all details of the customer that we would hold on record, which includes anything, like multiple email addresses.”

  12. tigtog

    ZDNet also has a feature on the AG’s proposal for a “data retention regime” in Australia.

    Another industry source told ZDNet Australia it was “a little bit cute” for the Attorney-General’s media advisor to say that the Federal Government wasn’t looking at a proposal to require ISPs retain “web browsing history”.

    “I think they’re being a little bit cute when they say they want the source and the destination IP addresses for internet sessions [while] saying ‘we’re not really asking for web browsing history’,” the source said.

    “Now sure, if you go into Internet Explorer you can go into internet options and you can get your ‘history’, but you know, carriers don’t really use URLs, they use IP addresses, and it’s the IP address that translates to a URL and vice versa. They’re one and the same.”

    There was more material in a data set the Attorney-General’s Department gave telecommunications companies that the source found a “bit frightening”. “They want allied personal information with that account, including, [the department] said, passport numbers.”

    “Why the hell an ISP would ask anybody for a passport number is beyond me,” the source said. “And I am not aware of any telephony requirements that ask for passport details.

    “So they’re asking for all details of the customer that we would hold on record, which includes anything, like multiple email addresses.”

  13. Tyro Rex

    We need election campaign ads like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GabMEHfCjT0

  14. Tyro Rex

    We need election campaign ads like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GabMEHfCjT0

  15. Paul Burns

    @ 3.
    Alexander Downing – “I crudely said” – Alexander, don’t be coy.
    So, like other politicians in our Parliament Rudd beieves he’s entitled to special treatment. No surprises there, Alex. And I don’t buy his fame thesis either. FFS, he’sa on TV every night. He doesn’t have to do anything to be famous. He just has to be. See the Libs are still grumbling about Rudd getting one over Ratty in the TV publicity stakes. Which just goes to prove, fellas, you can’t rely oin Alan Jones all the time.

  16. Paul Burns

    @ 3.
    Alexander Downing – “I crudely said” – Alexander, don’t be coy.
    So, like other politicians in our Parliament Rudd beieves he’s entitled to special treatment. No surprises there, Alex. And I don’t buy his fame thesis either. FFS, he’sa on TV every night. He doesn’t have to do anything to be famous. He just has to be. See the Libs are still grumbling about Rudd getting one over Ratty in the TV publicity stakes. Which just goes to prove, fellas, you can’t rely oin Alan Jones all the time.

  17. Fran Barlow

    Apparently, in the United States, female genital mutilation of infants is taking place as a result of some bizarre form body dysmorphia defined by medicos in small girls. Infant and near-school-age girls are being identified as suffering from clitoromagaly — an abnormally large clitoris. “Treatment” called “clitoroplasty” involves a shortening of the shaft and reattachment of the tip of the clitoris, which is then probed for sensitivity with either a cotton tip, a fingernail or perhaps even a vibrator.

    Needless to say, this is done in the presence of a parent.

    There are several outlandishly large elephants demanding to press their way in here, and perhaps I’d best not start, but one does wonder — this side of some life-alteringly serious and very probable urological problem which could be very likely treated effectively by such intervention — what were they thinking?

    Well apparently, according to this article at Alternet it’s all about growing up normal. Apparently cosmetic genital surgery is a viable business in the US.

    It seems to me that adults should have the right to do as they please with their genitals, providing it’s with informed consent, so I can’t see how I can object, but it’s not a huge leap from that to seeing how adults could come to think that if it is apt for them to adjust their genitals, then perhaps it might be apt to redesign one of their children’s genitals. This leads no place that is defencible, in my opinion.

    We are sailing pretty close to the wind here, especially when significant sums are involved and many say that FGM when practiced by faith communities, is wrong.

    I did wonder what the point of sensitivity testing would be. What happens if there is none? Do you work harder? Put it back the way it was? What are these kids?? Test material?

    Anyway, I’d best stop now as I will probably become carried away.

  18. Fran Barlow

    Apparently, in the United States, female genital mutilation of infants is taking place as a result of some bizarre form body dysmorphia defined by medicos in small girls. Infant and near-school-age girls are being identified as suffering from clitoromagaly — an abnormally large clitoris. “Treatment” called “clitoroplasty” involves a shortening of the shaft and reattachment of the tip of the clitoris, which is then probed for sensitivity with either a cotton tip, a fingernail or perhaps even a vibrator.

    Needless to say, this is done in the presence of a parent.

    There are several outlandishly large elephants demanding to press their way in here, and perhaps I’d best not start, but one does wonder — this side of some life-alteringly serious and very probable urological problem which could be very likely treated effectively by such intervention — what were they thinking?

    Well apparently, according to this article at Alternet it’s all about growing up normal. Apparently cosmetic genital surgery is a viable business in the US.

    It seems to me that adults should have the right to do as they please with their genitals, providing it’s with informed consent, so I can’t see how I can object, but it’s not a huge leap from that to seeing how adults could come to think that if it is apt for them to adjust their genitals, then perhaps it might be apt to redesign one of their children’s genitals. This leads no place that is defencible, in my opinion.

    We are sailing pretty close to the wind here, especially when significant sums are involved and many say that FGM when practiced by faith communities, is wrong.

    I did wonder what the point of sensitivity testing would be. What happens if there is none? Do you work harder? Put it back the way it was? What are these kids?? Test material?

    Anyway, I’d best stop now as I will probably become carried away.

  19. Fran Barlow

    On a totally separate matter …

    Hubby brought home a copy of that classic film, The Big Sleep and we sat down last night to do the trip down memory lane. Neither of us had seen the film since we became a couple.

    I’ve never understood Humphrey Bogart’s claims to sexual appeal. He seems like a bizarre caricature, but there was one minor element that was telling, in terms of discussion on another threat about ableism and inclusivity. Bogart’s character walks into a bookshop, ostensibly in an attempt to spy from a position of concealment on a bookshop across the road. The proprietor of the bookshop in which he sought to secret himself was an ostensibly attractive woman, who in short order, began to do the flirty body language thing with Bogart. Ultimately, it was concluded by her that the shop should be closed and that they should share a drink. She does the coquettish door close move and vamps her way to the counter as a drink is poured. Bogart raises his eyebrows and says something like do you mind? and she reads is allusion very quickly, losing her glasses and untying her hair, so that she can officially be “available” for the anticipated sexual banter.

    It was only a small matter, little more than a nuance of the dominant view of gender and the standing of ability yet it underscores very plainly that public discourse on these matters is very much a matter of the work we all do in allowing or reconfiguring it.

  20. Fran Barlow

    On a totally separate matter …

    Hubby brought home a copy of that classic film, The Big Sleep and we sat down last night to do the trip down memory lane. Neither of us had seen the film since we became a couple.

    I’ve never understood Humphrey Bogart’s claims to sexual appeal. He seems like a bizarre caricature, but there was one minor element that was telling, in terms of discussion on another threat about ableism and inclusivity. Bogart’s character walks into a bookshop, ostensibly in an attempt to spy from a position of concealment on a bookshop across the road. The proprietor of the bookshop in which he sought to secret himself was an ostensibly attractive woman, who in short order, began to do the flirty body language thing with Bogart. Ultimately, it was concluded by her that the shop should be closed and that they should share a drink. She does the coquettish door close move and vamps her way to the counter as a drink is poured. Bogart raises his eyebrows and says something like do you mind? and she reads is allusion very quickly, losing her glasses and untying her hair, so that she can officially be “available” for the anticipated sexual banter.

    It was only a small matter, little more than a nuance of the dominant view of gender and the standing of ability yet it underscores very plainly that public discourse on these matters is very much a matter of the work we all do in allowing or reconfiguring it.

  21. Fran Barlow

    Ok … two serious matters and now some fun …

    In my travels around the world of dogs … this caught my eye as amusing:

    Breakfast at Ginger’s

    Enjoy

  22. Fran Barlow

    Ok … two serious matters and now some fun …

    In my travels around the world of dogs … this caught my eye as amusing:

    Breakfast at Ginger’s

    Enjoy

  23. Brian

    Fran @ 9, I’ve had a go at fixing the formatting. You’d best check it. If I’ve stuffed up perhaps one of the other moderators could fix it for you as I’m going out now.

  24. Brian

    Fran @ 9, I’ve had a go at fixing the formatting. You’d best check it. If I’ve stuffed up perhaps one of the other moderators could fix it for you as I’m going out now.

  25. sg

    When stuff about the sea shepherd’s anti-whaling activities come up, people here often say “why don’t they focus on anything else, like tuna!” as if maybe the sea shepherds only pick “easy” targets (because getting rammed in the southern ocean is “easy”). So here’s an example of what they did a few days ago in the mediterranean:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/18/sea-shepherd-release-bluefin-tuna-libya

    This sort of thing is the reason that I found Paul Watson’s biography so impressive: these people really do take risks and try everything for what they believe in.

  26. sg

    When stuff about the sea shepherd’s anti-whaling activities come up, people here often say “why don’t they focus on anything else, like tuna!” as if maybe the sea shepherds only pick “easy” targets (because getting rammed in the southern ocean is “easy”). So here’s an example of what they did a few days ago in the mediterranean:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/18/sea-shepherd-release-bluefin-tuna-libya

    This sort of thing is the reason that I found Paul Watson’s biography so impressive: these people really do take risks and try everything for what they believe in.

  27. Fran Barlow

    Thanks Brian … it looks pretty good. Whe tigtog suggested it wasn’t best placed in the Johns topic I used the original notepad file, and assumed it would be fine. It wasn’t.

    Oddly, the only reason I use notepad files is because when topics go for longer than 160 posts or so, the delay between the stroke of the keyboard and the display of the text is long enough to cause error, and makes composition harder.

  28. Fran Barlow

    Thanks Brian … it looks pretty good. Whe tigtog suggested it wasn’t best placed in the Johns topic I used the original notepad file, and assumed it would be fine. It wasn’t.

    Oddly, the only reason I use notepad files is because when topics go for longer than 160 posts or so, the delay between the stroke of the keyboard and the display of the text is long enough to cause error, and makes composition harder.

  29. Fran Barlow

    And again on that oil spill …

    On the BBC, Lord Digby-Jones took umbrage at Cameron’s failure to rattle the diplomatic sabre more loudly in the face of Obama over British interests. In a style one sees often in tone trolls, he actually spent much of his complaint time doing the “of course Cameron could not defend BP and it has to take responsibility” routine, but then went on to cast Obama’s response as pandering to American exceptionalism for electoral advantage and rounded on Obama’s failure to grasp globalisation as Lord Digby-Jones understood it. Apart from changing his tone, it wasn’t clear what in practice, he thought Obama should do differently.

    You have to laugh. Tony Hayward, the now sidelined executive, said in 2007 that BP had acquired too many people trying to save the world and had lost its focus on shareholder value. He plainly decided to close this gulf in expectations.

    But I digress … back on Digby-Jones … He then went on to say that people in jurisdictions such as Brazil, Australia and South Africa ought to be very worried and cognizant of what was going on in the Gulf of Mexico because we were running the same kinds of risk. That may be true, and although on the one hand I would be horrified if something similar were to occur now in any of these places, there can be little doubt that if we were to have two or three such disasters right now, that it would really help rewrite the debate on fossil fuels and climate change in a progressive way. I would never wish it to happen, but if it is going to happen at some point — and one suspects that that is inevitable — it would be better that it happen now so that we can get the maximum political pay off in public policy change. That way, the horror of the mess in the Gulf of Mexico would not be in vain. This is after all, their second really bad spill.

  30. Fran Barlow

    And again on that oil spill …

    On the BBC, Lord Digby-Jones took umbrage at Cameron’s failure to rattle the diplomatic sabre more loudly in the face of Obama over British interests. In a style one sees often in tone trolls, he actually spent much of his complaint time doing the “of course Cameron could not defend BP and it has to take responsibility” routine, but then went on to cast Obama’s response as pandering to American exceptionalism for electoral advantage and rounded on Obama’s failure to grasp globalisation as Lord Digby-Jones understood it. Apart from changing his tone, it wasn’t clear what in practice, he thought Obama should do differently.

    You have to laugh. Tony Hayward, the now sidelined executive, said in 2007 that BP had acquired too many people trying to save the world and had lost its focus on shareholder value. He plainly decided to close this gulf in expectations.

    But I digress … back on Digby-Jones … He then went on to say that people in jurisdictions such as Brazil, Australia and South Africa ought to be very worried and cognizant of what was going on in the Gulf of Mexico because we were running the same kinds of risk. That may be true, and although on the one hand I would be horrified if something similar were to occur now in any of these places, there can be little doubt that if we were to have two or three such disasters right now, that it would really help rewrite the debate on fossil fuels and climate change in a progressive way. I would never wish it to happen, but if it is going to happen at some point — and one suspects that that is inevitable — it would be better that it happen now so that we can get the maximum political pay off in public policy change. That way, the horror of the mess in the Gulf of Mexico would not be in vain. This is after all, their second really bad spill.

  31. Fine

    That moment in ‘The Big sleep’ has always made me uncomfortable. I love Dorothy Malone as the sexy tax-driver in the same film. It’s directed by Howard Hawks, whose films are quite interesting in terms of sexual politics. He certainly wasn’t a feminist, but what he does in film after film is have heroines who are as capable, tough and professional as the men are. He likes his women to be cool, but to be able to match the men in terms of repartee and cynicism. The problem with this, from a feminist perspective, is that it’s always the men who are the measure and the women must take on typically ‘male’ attributes whilst never losing one whit of their feminine allure.

    Key heroines are Bacall in ‘To Have and Have Not’ and ‘The Big Sleep’, Rosalind Russell in ‘His Girl Friday’ and Joanne Dru in ‘Red River’. One of the most telling is ‘Man’s Favourite Sport’ in which Rock Hudson plays a fishing writer who doesn’t know how to fish and Paula Prentiss plays the woman who teaches him. It so obviously plays on Hudson’s sexuality which was known about in Hollywood at the time.

    The interesting exception to this is my favourite comedy of all time, ‘Bringing Up Baby’ in which Cary Grant is feminized by an unusually madcap and zany Katharine Hepburn. Anyway, I love Hawks films.

  32. Fine

    That moment in ‘The Big sleep’ has always made me uncomfortable. I love Dorothy Malone as the sexy tax-driver in the same film. It’s directed by Howard Hawks, whose films are quite interesting in terms of sexual politics. He certainly wasn’t a feminist, but what he does in film after film is have heroines who are as capable, tough and professional as the men are. He likes his women to be cool, but to be able to match the men in terms of repartee and cynicism. The problem with this, from a feminist perspective, is that it’s always the men who are the measure and the women must take on typically ‘male’ attributes whilst never losing one whit of their feminine allure.

    Key heroines are Bacall in ‘To Have and Have Not’ and ‘The Big Sleep’, Rosalind Russell in ‘His Girl Friday’ and Joanne Dru in ‘Red River’. One of the most telling is ‘Man’s Favourite Sport’ in which Rock Hudson plays a fishing writer who doesn’t know how to fish and Paula Prentiss plays the woman who teaches him. It so obviously plays on Hudson’s sexuality which was known about in Hollywood at the time.

    The interesting exception to this is my favourite comedy of all time, ‘Bringing Up Baby’ in which Cary Grant is feminized by an unusually madcap and zany Katharine Hepburn. Anyway, I love Hawks films.

  33. su

    It is insanity that bluefin tuna are not off the menu entirely, so I count that as a good news story too sg. On the consumption of endangered species it seems that Europe is now contributing to the demand for “bushmeat” from Africa. It has been estimated that 5 tonne per week is smuggled into Europe, 39% of which is the meat from endangered species.

  34. su

    It is insanity that bluefin tuna are not off the menu entirely, so I count that as a good news story too sg. On the consumption of endangered species it seems that Europe is now contributing to the demand for “bushmeat” from Africa. It has been estimated that 5 tonne per week is smuggled into Europe, 39% of which is the meat from endangered species.

  35. sg

    su, it’s also an amazing picture and a quite impressive action, freeing the tuna while there was a minor marine skirmish going on up above.

    Fine, if you want movie heroines who don’t live up to men as a measure, you need look no further than Miyazaki Hayao. Nausicaa is my personal all-time favourite movie hero, followed by Magua (not a hero or a girl or a Miyazaki character, but whatever…).

    In fact I would go so far as to say that the anime/manga world is full of them – Major Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell, Witch Hunter Robin, most of the girls in Neon Genesis Evangelion, etc.

  36. sg

    su, it’s also an amazing picture and a quite impressive action, freeing the tuna while there was a minor marine skirmish going on up above.

    Fine, if you want movie heroines who don’t live up to men as a measure, you need look no further than Miyazaki Hayao. Nausicaa is my personal all-time favourite movie hero, followed by Magua (not a hero or a girl or a Miyazaki character, but whatever…).

    In fact I would go so far as to say that the anime/manga world is full of them – Major Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell, Witch Hunter Robin, most of the girls in Neon Genesis Evangelion, etc.

  37. Nana Levu

    Fran #11 your link to Breakfast at Ginger’s did not open but found it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAVZ2yXDBo
    The whole series is fun.

  38. Nana Levu

    Fran #11 your link to Breakfast at Ginger’s did not open but found it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAVZ2yXDBo
    The whole series is fun.

  39. Fran Barlow

    It is NL …

    While I was looking at that I saw another youtube clip from Britain’s Got Talent in which a border collie called “Gin” was doing what is called “Freestyle” — essentially doing coordinated dance-like moves with a handler.

    I’ve actually managed some of these with two of my dogs, though I have declined to do the extended walking on back legs/begging as this is bad for their lower backs and patellae. We do the rolls and jumps (and my sheltie-x can get quite high).

  40. Fran Barlow

    It is NL …

    While I was looking at that I saw another youtube clip from Britain’s Got Talent in which a border collie called “Gin” was doing what is called “Freestyle” — essentially doing coordinated dance-like moves with a handler.

    I’ve actually managed some of these with two of my dogs, though I have declined to do the extended walking on back legs/begging as this is bad for their lower backs and patellae. We do the rolls and jumps (and my sheltie-x can get quite high).

  41. su

    Does anyone have any insight into the extraordinary Age/Australian/Overland three-ringed circus? I swear the Australian was almost bloglike in its stoushing with the Age today. Screencaps of rival paper’s headlines and all.

  42. su

    Does anyone have any insight into the extraordinary Age/Australian/Overland three-ringed circus? I swear the Australian was almost bloglike in its stoushing with the Age today. Screencaps of rival paper’s headlines and all.

  43. Fine

    I do like and admire Miyazaki’s work a lot, sg.

  44. Fine

    I do like and admire Miyazaki’s work a lot, sg.

  45. Robert Merkel

    [email protected], that’s just appalling.

    How in the hell did that ever get past the ethics committee?

  46. Robert Merkel

    [email protected], that’s just appalling.

    How in the hell did that ever get past the ethics committee?

  47. brett coster

    Miyazaki’s heroines are terriffic examples for girls. All of Miyazaki’s films have capable girls/young women who are active protagonists and leaders in the action, often in conjunction with a same age male (apart from Porco Rosso) but always an equal (even in Porco Rosso) never secondary.

    I’ve been loaning my copies of Nausicaa, Mononoke, Totoro, Kiki, Spirited Away etc over the last few years, almost always resulting in the lendee having to buy their own copy or else risk losing bestest daddy status. The movies invariably end up on high rotation and become favourite movies. My daughters, now in their twenties, still happily sit with me and watch them, and have even introduced some of their friends to the movies. Great stuff.

    Elsewhere, David Brin writes good female characters in his stories. My oldest daughter introduced Glory Season to most of her friends at about 13 or 14 with similar subversive results.

    And in a bit of serendipity, tonight’s DVD is scheduled to be Bringing Up Baby. Looking forward to it,never having seen it before.

  48. brett coster

    Miyazaki’s heroines are terriffic examples for girls. All of Miyazaki’s films have capable girls/young women who are active protagonists and leaders in the action, often in conjunction with a same age male (apart from Porco Rosso) but always an equal (even in Porco Rosso) never secondary.

    I’ve been loaning my copies of Nausicaa, Mononoke, Totoro, Kiki, Spirited Away etc over the last few years, almost always resulting in the lendee having to buy their own copy or else risk losing bestest daddy status. The movies invariably end up on high rotation and become favourite movies. My daughters, now in their twenties, still happily sit with me and watch them, and have even introduced some of their friends to the movies. Great stuff.

    Elsewhere, David Brin writes good female characters in his stories. My oldest daughter introduced Glory Season to most of her friends at about 13 or 14 with similar subversive results.

    And in a bit of serendipity, tonight’s DVD is scheduled to be Bringing Up Baby. Looking forward to it,never having seen it before.

  49. p.a.travers

    On Humphrey Bogart,don’t forget his name as a moniker for film producing promotion.As in Camel ciggies, male humping as in singular activity.IT often starts in early teenage years and thought has no control over it. Rey is a one of a number of female forms of Raymond.A mond is anyone’s guess.Beau and Cupid draw back your Garters,and the cig in the mouth as liberal attitudes and French type liberal and when affectionately called Bogey, or Beaut Guy.Only women would carry on about wether he actually is really romantic or not.Considering the many attitudes of his era, the style of his acting is simply to avoid something for the sake of something else.Many critics of film today claim that there is no capacity anymore to use ones’ own imagination.Bogey was thus in that film,portraying something outside the normal bookshop visitor,and thus, maybe, a flirtatious reality was part of the writers requirement.I didn’t have this experience myself, but once entering a bookshop in Fitzroy Melbourne fresh from country N.S.W. I might of looked a a bit more of a particular type of male being compared to the local lot.And,having lived in the city and seen for myself the appeal in others which permeates at and off said bodies.Nuances i the film itself ,maybe suggesting what are considered universal stereotypes before the word stereotype and formula writing that maybe easily criticised today.Cheap budget, camera angles and acting styles within the limitation of technology and technique thus reduce the characters as they were today.Perhaps even today, the particular attitude of the Bogey would seem attractive in some settings.The bookshop could thus represent a home library setting,a stud y , etc.Which to my mind says more about the writer than the actors then,and plainly so.

  50. p.a.travers

    On Humphrey Bogart,don’t forget his name as a moniker for film producing promotion.As in Camel ciggies, male humping as in singular activity.IT often starts in early teenage years and thought has no control over it. Rey is a one of a number of female forms of Raymond.A mond is anyone’s guess.Beau and Cupid draw back your Garters,and the cig in the mouth as liberal attitudes and French type liberal and when affectionately called Bogey, or Beaut Guy.Only women would carry on about wether he actually is really romantic or not.Considering the many attitudes of his era, the style of his acting is simply to avoid something for the sake of something else.Many critics of film today claim that there is no capacity anymore to use ones’ own imagination.Bogey was thus in that film,portraying something outside the normal bookshop visitor,and thus, maybe, a flirtatious reality was part of the writers requirement.I didn’t have this experience myself, but once entering a bookshop in Fitzroy Melbourne fresh from country N.S.W. I might of looked a a bit more of a particular type of male being compared to the local lot.And,having lived in the city and seen for myself the appeal in others which permeates at and off said bodies.Nuances i the film itself ,maybe suggesting what are considered universal stereotypes before the word stereotype and formula writing that maybe easily criticised today.Cheap budget, camera angles and acting styles within the limitation of technology and technique thus reduce the characters as they were today.Perhaps even today, the particular attitude of the Bogey would seem attractive in some settings.The bookshop could thus represent a home library setting,a stud y , etc.Which to my mind says more about the writer than the actors then,and plainly so.

  51. TerjeP

    The Sun Herald on page 8 reports that Kevin Rudds top mental health adviser (John Mendoza) has quit accusing the Rudd government of a lack of vision and commitment on mental health and saying the government has been taking credit for initatives put in place by the Howard government.

  52. TerjeP

    The Sun Herald on page 8 reports that Kevin Rudds top mental health adviser (John Mendoza) has quit accusing the Rudd government of a lack of vision and commitment on mental health and saying the government has been taking credit for initatives put in place by the Howard government.

  53. Terangeree

    TerjeP @ 26

    The Rudd government’s been taking credit for Howard government initiatives? Tell us something new.

    I seem to remember Howard’s government taking credit for Hawke/Keating initiatives, and Hawke’s government taking credit for things put in place by Fraser, who took credit for initiatives by the Whitlam government, who took credit for things that the McMahon government started to do during their last days on the Treasury benches.

    I’d argue that you’d have to go back to Edmund Barton if you want to find a Federal government that didn’t take the credit for some of the things their predecessor put in place.

  54. Terangeree

    TerjeP @ 26

    The Rudd government’s been taking credit for Howard government initiatives? Tell us something new.

    I seem to remember Howard’s government taking credit for Hawke/Keating initiatives, and Hawke’s government taking credit for things put in place by Fraser, who took credit for initiatives by the Whitlam government, who took credit for things that the McMahon government started to do during their last days on the Treasury benches.

    I’d argue that you’d have to go back to Edmund Barton if you want to find a Federal government that didn’t take the credit for some of the things their predecessor put in place.

  55. nasking

    I’ve just put up a new post:

    Watching ‘Insiders’ Is Like Having a Hard Dry Dump

    http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/watching-insiders-is-like-having-a-hard-dry-dump/

    Apart from that it was a gorgeous yet coolish morning here in South-East QLD.

    Last night we watched the finale of ‘Stargate Universe’…it’s certainly picked up from the first few episodes that were extremely talky and a bit of a yawn at times. The tension & suspense has certainly built up.

    And don’t ya just hate those finale cliffhangers that are meant to draw ya into the next season but by the time they come along in Australia we’ve usually forgotten the name of the show and most of the previous episodes…let alone remember the cliffhanger.

    N’

  56. nasking

    I’ve just put up a new post:

    Watching ‘Insiders’ Is Like Having a Hard Dry Dump

    http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/watching-insiders-is-like-having-a-hard-dry-dump/

    Apart from that it was a gorgeous yet coolish morning here in South-East QLD.

    Last night we watched the finale of ‘Stargate Universe’…it’s certainly picked up from the first few episodes that were extremely talky and a bit of a yawn at times. The tension & suspense has certainly built up.

    And don’t ya just hate those finale cliffhangers that are meant to draw ya into the next season but by the time they come along in Australia we’ve usually forgotten the name of the show and most of the previous episodes…let alone remember the cliffhanger.

    N’

  57. nasking

    “What are these kids?? Test material?”

    Fran @9, that is really disturbing news. In America eh? I just shake my head.

    N’

  58. nasking

    “What are these kids?? Test material?”

    Fran @9, that is really disturbing news. In America eh? I just shake my head.

    N’

  59. j_p_z

    On the immortal Humphrey Bogart…

    (with nods of course to Lieber and Stoller…)

    NB you have to imagine this in a perfect deadpan, in a tango tempo with snarky piano stings after each rhyme; since I can’t actually sing it to you, that’s close enuf to how it’s done.

    “Humphrey Bogart”
    (Lieber and Stoller)

    Hum-phrey Bo-gart,
    I am in love with you,
    And ev’ry part you’ve played!

    Hum-phrey Bo-gart,
    My fav’rite movie-star,
    I’ve seen every film you’ve made!

    And the greatest of all’s
    The Maltese Falcon!
    I start climbing walls
    When you start talkin’ —

    That sneer,
    The lip,
    The dangling cig-a-rette,
    You look so keen to me,
    I start to cry!
    If you would
    Step
    Out of my
    TV-set,
    And just be mean to me,
    I think I’d die!

    Hum-phrey Bo-gart,
    Come on and hump-phrey me,
    Push me against the wall!
    Hum-phrey Bo-gart,
    Come on and bogart me,
    Just like you did Ba-call!

    Play it, Sam.

  60. j_p_z

    On the immortal Humphrey Bogart…

    (with nods of course to Lieber and Stoller…)

    NB you have to imagine this in a perfect deadpan, in a tango tempo with snarky piano stings after each rhyme; since I can’t actually sing it to you, that’s close enuf to how it’s done.

    “Humphrey Bogart”
    (Lieber and Stoller)

    Hum-phrey Bo-gart,
    I am in love with you,
    And ev’ry part you’ve played!

    Hum-phrey Bo-gart,
    My fav’rite movie-star,
    I’ve seen every film you’ve made!

    And the greatest of all’s
    The Maltese Falcon!
    I start climbing walls
    When you start talkin’ —

    That sneer,
    The lip,
    The dangling cig-a-rette,
    You look so keen to me,
    I start to cry!
    If you would
    Step
    Out of my
    TV-set,
    And just be mean to me,
    I think I’d die!

    Hum-phrey Bo-gart,
    Come on and hump-phrey me,
    Push me against the wall!
    Hum-phrey Bo-gart,
    Come on and bogart me,
    Just like you did Ba-call!

    Play it, Sam.

  61. Fine

    Give me Cary Grant any day. Or Robert Mitchum. And I’ll tell you who’s under-rated – Jimmy Cagney. “Top of the world, Ma”.

  62. Fine

    Give me Cary Grant any day. Or Robert Mitchum. And I’ll tell you who’s under-rated – Jimmy Cagney. “Top of the world, Ma”.

  63. j_p_z

    Jimmy Cagney’s entrance at the beginning of “Dead End” is the greatest entrance in movie history.

    Robert Duvall has the greatest exit — “ya know, some day, this war’s gonna end” in Apocalypse Now.

    But gimme Jimmy Jazz.

  64. j_p_z

    Jimmy Cagney’s entrance at the beginning of “Dead End” is the greatest entrance in movie history.

    Robert Duvall has the greatest exit — “ya know, some day, this war’s gonna end” in Apocalypse Now.

    But gimme Jimmy Jazz.

  65. Fran Barlow

    If there was an ethics committee [email protected], it was asleep at the time.

  66. Fran Barlow

    If there was an ethics committee [email protected], it was asleep at the time.

  67. Tyro Rex

    I am with Fine on James Cagney. He could sing and dance too (see Footlight Parade for evidence). Cagney was also an active member of the Screen Actors Guild, i.e. the actors union, in a time when Hollywood stars had only started to unionise.

    Meanwhile, in out universe … the government has cut a deal with Telstra over the NBN, buying its customer base for $11b – http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/telstra-signs-transfer-deal-20100620-yosf.html

  68. Tyro Rex

    I am with Fine on James Cagney. He could sing and dance too (see Footlight Parade for evidence). Cagney was also an active member of the Screen Actors Guild, i.e. the actors union, in a time when Hollywood stars had only started to unionise.

    Meanwhile, in out universe … the government has cut a deal with Telstra over the NBN, buying its customer base for $11b – http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/telstra-signs-transfer-deal-20100620-yosf.html

  69. Fine

    Tyro Rex, not to mention his turn as George Cohan in ‘Yankee Doodle Dandy’. He was like an imp on speed.

  70. Fine

    Tyro Rex, not to mention his turn as George Cohan in ‘Yankee Doodle Dandy’. He was like an imp on speed.

  71. Brian

    Fran @ 33, that was Robert @ 23, but I do agree. 🙂

  72. Brian

    Fran @ 33, that was Robert @ 23, but I do agree. 🙂

  73. Fran Barlow

    Brian

    My apologies to both you and Robert …

  74. Fran Barlow

    Brian

    My apologies to both you and Robert …

  75. CMMC

    Bradley Manning, the US Army intelligence analyst who leaked the video of the Apache helicopter massacre in Afghanistan to Wikileaks, is now thought to have been going through (or considering) trans-gender procedures.

    BoingBoing.net has found Instant Messaging logs between Manning and hacker Adrian Lamo.

    “(1:11:54 PM) bradass87: and… its important that it gets out… i feel, for some bizarre reason
    (1:12:02 PM) bradass87: it might actually change something
    (1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just… dont wish to be a part of it… at least not now… im not ready… i wouldn’t mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn’t for the possibility of having pictures of me… plastered all over the world press… as boy…
    (1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i’ve totally lost my mind… i make no sense… the CPU is not made for this motherboard…
    (1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy
    (1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
    (1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out… to be myself… and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations
    (1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
    (1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now…
    (1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged… and figure out how on earth im going to transition
    (1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed
    (1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologically"

    http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.html#more

  76. CMMC

    Bradley Manning, the US Army intelligence analyst who leaked the video of the Apache helicopter massacre in Afghanistan to Wikileaks, is now thought to have been going through (or considering) trans-gender procedures.

    BoingBoing.net has found Instant Messaging logs between Manning and hacker Adrian Lamo.

    “(1:11:54 PM) bradass87: and… its important that it gets out… i feel, for some bizarre reason
    (1:12:02 PM) bradass87: it might actually change something
    (1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just… dont wish to be a part of it… at least not now… im not ready… i wouldn’t mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn’t for the possibility of having pictures of me… plastered all over the world press… as boy…
    (1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i’ve totally lost my mind… i make no sense… the CPU is not made for this motherboard…
    (1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy
    (1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<
    (1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out… to be myself… and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations
    (1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be
    (1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now…
    (1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged… and figure out how on earth im going to transition
    (1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed
    (1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologically"

    http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/20/was-alleged-wikileak.html#more

  77. pablo

    This ex-DJ’s boss Mark McInnes is something of a lad by emerging accounts. His ‘inappropriate behaviour’ vis a vis a young female staff member prompting his resignation should now be read in the plural as stories emerge of the 43 year old Lothario living out a ’60’s fantasy in a 21st century fashionista/retail world.

    Being appointed David Jones CEO in 2004 must have been simply too much for the man. But that he could apparently get away with it while the sharemarket value of DJ’s climbed says something about corporate culture in Australia. No one officially complained until now and from here on the larger questions will be asked. Talk about Tiger Woods on the catwalk!

  78. pablo

    This ex-DJ’s boss Mark McInnes is something of a lad by emerging accounts. His ‘inappropriate behaviour’ vis a vis a young female staff member prompting his resignation should now be read in the plural as stories emerge of the 43 year old Lothario living out a ’60’s fantasy in a 21st century fashionista/retail world.

    Being appointed David Jones CEO in 2004 must have been simply too much for the man. But that he could apparently get away with it while the sharemarket value of DJ’s climbed says something about corporate culture in Australia. No one officially complained until now and from here on the larger questions will be asked. Talk about Tiger Woods on the catwalk!

  79. Ambigulous

    A nice touch that an online article about new allegations against the former top Mr DJ, was written by a Mr Hornery.
    Who better to handle it?

  80. Ambigulous

    A nice touch that an online article about new allegations against the former top Mr DJ, was written by a Mr Hornery.
    Who better to handle it?

  81. Fran Barlow

    And in other news this week a coal mining explosion in an underground mine in Colombia killed 72 and trapped about 50 more and one in China killed at least 46.

    In any twelve month period in China one can pencil in at least 3000 such casualties. This year AIUI, its up to 2631 in China alone. Go coal …

  82. Fran Barlow

    And in other news this week a coal mining explosion in an underground mine in Colombia killed 72 and trapped about 50 more and one in China killed at least 46.

    In any twelve month period in China one can pencil in at least 3000 such casualties. This year AIUI, its up to 2631 in China alone. Go coal …

  83. Fran Barlow

    Correction … the 2631 was an official figure for 2009 — so less than 3000, but still horrible … (assumes official figures are accurate but as many mines are unregulated and illegal, they probably aren’t)

  84. Fran Barlow

    Correction … the 2631 was an official figure for 2009 — so less than 3000, but still horrible … (assumes official figures are accurate but as many mines are unregulated and illegal, they probably aren’t)

  85. Anna Winter

    http://republicandemocrats.org.au/news.html

    IS THIS THE END OF FORD V. HOLDEN POLITICS IN AUSTRALIA?

    Totally disgusted with Australian politics?

    Thinking about donkey-voting, or voting Green or Independent in the federal election? Wishing someone would start a new party to give you real choice? Seems someone has been listening to all those calls on talkback radio and letters to the editor. From the democracy-addicted state that gave us the principal author of our nation’s Constitution, the Labor Party, One Nation and our nation’s first vote for women, two Queenslanders from either side of the political tracks announce a new party they think can become an important third force in Australian politics just in the nick of time to rescue the federal election.

    Named the ‘Republican Democrats’, the new party is unashamedly modelled on the successful Liberal Democrat centre party which only recently captured the balance of power in the UK elections.

    The party’s co-founders say they have heard the public crying out for something new and now unveil a model they believe will capture the imagination of Australians from all walks of life and provide the platform to elect a new breed of no-nonsense political representatives.

  86. Anna Winter

    http://republicandemocrats.org.au/news.html

    IS THIS THE END OF FORD V. HOLDEN POLITICS IN AUSTRALIA?

    Totally disgusted with Australian politics?

    Thinking about donkey-voting, or voting Green or Independent in the federal election? Wishing someone would start a new party to give you real choice? Seems someone has been listening to all those calls on talkback radio and letters to the editor. From the democracy-addicted state that gave us the principal author of our nation’s Constitution, the Labor Party, One Nation and our nation’s first vote for women, two Queenslanders from either side of the political tracks announce a new party they think can become an important third force in Australian politics just in the nick of time to rescue the federal election.

    Named the ‘Republican Democrats’, the new party is unashamedly modelled on the successful Liberal Democrat centre party which only recently captured the balance of power in the UK elections.

    The party’s co-founders say they have heard the public crying out for something new and now unveil a model they believe will capture the imagination of Australians from all walks of life and provide the platform to elect a new breed of no-nonsense political representatives.

  87. Liam

    That’s remarkable, Anna. That’ll certainly provide more choice. Yes it will.

  88. Liam

    That’s remarkable, Anna. That’ll certainly provide more choice. Yes it will.

  89. Liam

    Wait, reading further into it… is that the sound of political comedy in Australia finally getting subtle?

  90. Liam

    Wait, reading further into it… is that the sound of political comedy in Australia finally getting subtle?

  91. su

    REPUBLICAN DEMOCRATS will help our clever country explore ways it can tool up to independently defend our island nation using military technology and hardware made and maintained by our own factories, shipyards and workers

    As a fully independent republic we can better avoid wrongly violating the sovereignity of other countries.

    LOL.

  92. su

    REPUBLICAN DEMOCRATS will help our clever country explore ways it can tool up to independently defend our island nation using military technology and hardware made and maintained by our own factories, shipyards and workers

    As a fully independent republic we can better avoid wrongly violating the sovereignity of other countries.

    LOL.

  93. Zorronsky

    CEO Higgins says, ”The Rep Dems are a party for small ‘l’ Liberal and Labor people, for small ‘g’ Greens, and for small ‘n’ Nats;
    Midgits?

  94. Zorronsky

    CEO Higgins says, ”The Rep Dems are a party for small ‘l’ Liberal and Labor people, for small ‘g’ Greens, and for small ‘n’ Nats;
    Midgits?

  95. Darryl Rosin

    “Wait, reading further into it… is that the sound of political comedy in Australia finally getting subtle?”

    I’d be surprised. Peter Pyke’s a deadly serious kind of guy, in my limited experience with him.

    d

  96. Darryl Rosin

    “Wait, reading further into it… is that the sound of political comedy in Australia finally getting subtle?”

    I’d be surprised. Peter Pyke’s a deadly serious kind of guy, in my limited experience with him.

    d

  97. Paul Burns

    Well, that’s all very interesting but I still hold to the belief that you can never truist a Liberal. That belief ultimately proved me right about the Australian Democrats and I doubt thesae pair of clowns will be any different.
    I’ll be putting the socialist parties at the top of my ballot in the Senate, and after Sarah Hanson Young’s performance last night on Q&A the Greens will be down the bottom of the ballot paper with all the other major parties and they’ll be below the ALP and just before the National Party.
    Any Party that’s stupid enough to play political games that risk an Abbott Government, the way the Greens are doing isn’t worth voting for ever. And I mean EVER!

  98. Paul Burns

    Well, that’s all very interesting but I still hold to the belief that you can never truist a Liberal. That belief ultimately proved me right about the Australian Democrats and I doubt thesae pair of clowns will be any different.
    I’ll be putting the socialist parties at the top of my ballot in the Senate, and after Sarah Hanson Young’s performance last night on Q&A the Greens will be down the bottom of the ballot paper with all the other major parties and they’ll be below the ALP and just before the National Party.
    Any Party that’s stupid enough to play political games that risk an Abbott Government, the way the Greens are doing isn’t worth voting for ever. And I mean EVER!

  99. Fran Barlow

    I’m sorry that you feel that way paul.

    It seems to me that Ms Hanson-Young was doing nothing but preserve The Greens bargaining leverage with the ALP and buying the time The Greens need to consolidate those who are “parking” their votes out of disillusionment with the majors rather than being attracted to the Greens as an alternative.

    It is self-evident that if you agree in advance to write the ALP a blank cheque on support, that you take responsibility for their policies, including those you on paper abhor. That can only free the ALP to negotiate with those who aren’t giving it all away for nothing — i.e. the right. The fact remains that on the issue of greatest moment right now — the RSPT, Hanson-Young urged Emerson and the ALP to stand firm. That hardly amounts to playing the kind of political game that might get Abbott elected.

    If anyone was singing Abbott’s tune last night, it was Richardson, who, for all practical purposes, urged the ALP to give up, asserting that the big miners were killing the government in the PR battle. Yet if the Greens also concede, they are conceding to the Richardson faction and then the left really does have not even a muted voice in the parliament. That would be disaster.

  100. Fran Barlow

    I’m sorry that you feel that way paul.

    It seems to me that Ms Hanson-Young was doing nothing but preserve The Greens bargaining leverage with the ALP and buying the time The Greens need to consolidate those who are “parking” their votes out of disillusionment with the majors rather than being attracted to the Greens as an alternative.

    It is self-evident that if you agree in advance to write the ALP a blank cheque on support, that you take responsibility for their policies, including those you on paper abhor. That can only free the ALP to negotiate with those who aren’t giving it all away for nothing — i.e. the right. The fact remains that on the issue of greatest moment right now — the RSPT, Hanson-Young urged Emerson and the ALP to stand firm. That hardly amounts to playing the kind of political game that might get Abbott elected.

    If anyone was singing Abbott’s tune last night, it was Richardson, who, for all practical purposes, urged the ALP to give up, asserting that the big miners were killing the government in the PR battle. Yet if the Greens also concede, they are conceding to the Richardson faction and then the left really does have not even a muted voice in the parliament. That would be disaster.

  101. Fran Barlow

    The other interesting thing about Q&A last night, given the anti-ALP narrative we have been discussing, is how the entire panel piled onto Ms Young, asking her questions, the answer to which they were willing to shout down. And as she was deciding which question to answer, she was accused of ducking and weaving like another politician. I wanted her to say — if you’re not interested in my answers, why involve me in the question?

    This tells us something very plain. While the media narrative is anti-ALP, its core them is animus towards The Greens, which for the commercial media and their public bauble, the ABC, is a proxy for all things left, in this case christened as “absolutism”.

    I’m not a big fan of Sarah Hanson-Young. She’s not particularly articulate or quick on her feet. I don’t think she has done the intellectual work to be able to respond effectively to right-wing talking points. Yet last night she was on the wrong end of a right-wing barrage embracing all the incoherent CIS-monkey, Turnbull, Richardson, Emerson, Jones and plainly, much of the audience. Even someone a lot better prepared than her was going to struggle to get a completed idea out there.

  102. Fran Barlow

    The other interesting thing about Q&A last night, given the anti-ALP narrative we have been discussing, is how the entire panel piled onto Ms Young, asking her questions, the answer to which they were willing to shout down. And as she was deciding which question to answer, she was accused of ducking and weaving like another politician. I wanted her to say — if you’re not interested in my answers, why involve me in the question?

    This tells us something very plain. While the media narrative is anti-ALP, its core them is animus towards The Greens, which for the commercial media and their public bauble, the ABC, is a proxy for all things left, in this case christened as “absolutism”.

    I’m not a big fan of Sarah Hanson-Young. She’s not particularly articulate or quick on her feet. I don’t think she has done the intellectual work to be able to respond effectively to right-wing talking points. Yet last night she was on the wrong end of a right-wing barrage embracing all the incoherent CIS-monkey, Turnbull, Richardson, Emerson, Jones and plainly, much of the audience. Even someone a lot better prepared than her was going to struggle to get a completed idea out there.

  103. Down and Out of Sài Gòn

    If the Republican Democrats aim to be a new party, why do they write so boringly?

    Monotonous language won’t grab them new votes. Worse than that: monotony hints at the lack of ideas underneath. The most vibrant political language generally comes from the party rebels and the independents, if it comes at all [*]. To form a corrolary from this: any would-be party creator needs to be an interesting communicator to get my attention – let alone my vote.

    Here’s a big clue in a 20 metre tall neon flashing sign in the seedy side of the Valley. The party is named after two of the most compromised and corrupt organizations in Western politics. Did this ever occur to the founder, or did he just sleepwalk into it?

    [* Concept grabbed and embraced from “Politics and the English Language”, of course. And if you are thinking “Churchill” as a counterexample, I say unto you: he spent much of his life on the back benches.]

  104. Down and Out of Sài Gòn

    If the Republican Democrats aim to be a new party, why do they write so boringly?

    Monotonous language won’t grab them new votes. Worse than that: monotony hints at the lack of ideas underneath. The most vibrant political language generally comes from the party rebels and the independents, if it comes at all [*]. To form a corrolary from this: any would-be party creator needs to be an interesting communicator to get my attention – let alone my vote.

    Here’s a big clue in a 20 metre tall neon flashing sign in the seedy side of the Valley. The party is named after two of the most compromised and corrupt organizations in Western politics. Did this ever occur to the founder, or did he just sleepwalk into it?

    [* Concept grabbed and embraced from “Politics and the English Language”, of course. And if you are thinking “Churchill” as a counterexample, I say unto you: he spent much of his life on the back benches.]

  105. Paul Burns

    FB @ 50,
    Richardson was in the Hawke Government – you know, the first of the Labor Partys you have when you’re not having a Labor Party, federally, anyway. What else would you expect?
    As for Hanson Young. If she wasn’t up to the job, and she clearly wasn’t, why on earth did the Greens put Hansen-Young up against a wily old fox like Richo and a serial bully like Turnbull?

  106. Paul Burns

    FB @ 50,
    Richardson was in the Hawke Government – you know, the first of the Labor Partys you have when you’re not having a Labor Party, federally, anyway. What else would you expect?
    As for Hanson Young. If she wasn’t up to the job, and she clearly wasn’t, why on earth did the Greens put Hansen-Young up against a wily old fox like Richo and a serial bully like Turnbull?

  107. Fran Barlow

    I don’t know why they let her go on Paul — EEO? She was the only one available? That’s not a good enough reason to abandon the party.

  108. Fran Barlow

    I don’t know why they let her go on Paul — EEO? She was the only one available? That’s not a good enough reason to abandon the party.

  109. David Irving (no relation)

    They’re not just boring, Down and Out, they also made at least one factual error in their statement – the first place in Aust6ralia (and, in fact, the world) to give women the vote was South Australia, not Queensland. At the same time, I believe Aborigines had the vote in SA, too.

  110. David Irving (no relation)

    They’re not just boring, Down and Out, they also made at least one factual error in their statement – the first place in Aust6ralia (and, in fact, the world) to give women the vote was South Australia, not Queensland. At the same time, I believe Aborigines had the vote in SA, too.

  111. Paul Burns

    The reason for “abandoning” the Greens, not that I was ever a wholehearted supporter 0saw them more as an ally, is that they are so obviously pissing in Abbott’s pocket. I’m disgusted with Rudd, but as I’ve said before, give me a stuffed Labor Governmebt any day over any Liberal Government. And I’m still going to put the whole bloody lot of them at the bottom of me ballot.

  112. Paul Burns

    The reason for “abandoning” the Greens, not that I was ever a wholehearted supporter 0saw them more as an ally, is that they are so obviously pissing in Abbott’s pocket. I’m disgusted with Rudd, but as I’ve said before, give me a stuffed Labor Governmebt any day over any Liberal Government. And I’m still going to put the whole bloody lot of them at the bottom of me ballot.

  113. GregM

    the first place in Aust6ralia (and, in fact, the world) to give women the vote was South Australia, not Queensland. At the same time, I believe Aborigines had the vote in SA, too.

    DI(NR) I think that we must must concede the honours for doing that first to our cousins across the Tasman in 1893. South Australia followed in 1894.

    However Wiki suggests that Corsica may have been the real trailblazer in this- in 1759. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_suffrage#18th_century.

  114. GregM

    the first place in Aust6ralia (and, in fact, the world) to give women the vote was South Australia, not Queensland. At the same time, I believe Aborigines had the vote in SA, too.

    DI(NR) I think that we must must concede the honours for doing that first to our cousins across the Tasman in 1893. South Australia followed in 1894.

    However Wiki suggests that Corsica may have been the real trailblazer in this- in 1759. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_suffrage#18th_century.

  115. Ambigulous

    GregM

    If Corsica was first in 1759, it makes hair-splitting between New Zealand, South Australia et al look a trifle lame.

  116. Ambigulous

    GregM

    If Corsica was first in 1759, it makes hair-splitting between New Zealand, South Australia et al look a trifle lame.

  117. Fran Barlow

    Well that’s all very well Paul. By all means put socialists first as long as you put The Greens ahead of the ALP with the Coalition last it is the ALP who will get the benefit your vote but with the added information that you’d like them to be a less stuffed ALP government.

    I don’t agree they are “pissing in Abbott’s pocket”. The ALP did that over the ETS and on irregular arrivals quite explicitly. It was The Greens who waved the banner for reason on climate change and humanity in asylum-seeker policy.

  118. Fran Barlow

    Well that’s all very well Paul. By all means put socialists first as long as you put The Greens ahead of the ALP with the Coalition last it is the ALP who will get the benefit your vote but with the added information that you’d like them to be a less stuffed ALP government.

    I don’t agree they are “pissing in Abbott’s pocket”. The ALP did that over the ETS and on irregular arrivals quite explicitly. It was The Greens who waved the banner for reason on climate change and humanity in asylum-seeker policy.

  119. David Irving (no relation)

    GregM, I stand corrected. Put it down to a natural pride in the place of my birth.

  120. David Irving (no relation)

    GregM, I stand corrected. Put it down to a natural pride in the place of my birth.

  121. Nelson's Mighty Column

    zomg feminists to blame for Napoleon!

  122. Nelson's Mighty Column

    zomg feminists to blame for Napoleon!

  123. Fran Barlow

    Pride in the place of your birth is not natural, but acquired through learning, DI(NR). It may well be rational, but typically, it is not.

  124. Fran Barlow

    Pride in the place of your birth is not natural, but acquired through learning, DI(NR). It may well be rational, but typically, it is not.

  125. Paul Burns

    Never fear, Fran. The Coalition parties are ALWAYS at the bottom of my ballot paper, just above racist parties like One Nation etc and the Xtan fundie parties.

  126. Paul Burns

    Never fear, Fran. The Coalition parties are ALWAYS at the bottom of my ballot paper, just above racist parties like One Nation etc and the Xtan fundie parties.

  127. Katz

    Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s recent brain explosion in “Rolling Stone” [!]* demonstrates the level of chaos and maladministration of the Afghanistan fiasco.

    I notice that Rudd has donned his metaphorical digger’s hat (he found it lying around Kirrabilli after Ratty was evicted), and intoned, “We propose to stay the course.”

    What is that course? Who is setting it? (Tell me it isn’t Obama and Gen. Stanley McChrystal). What does the destination look like so we won’t whoosh right past it?

    Time to withdraw the troops, Ruddster. We shouldn’t have a dog in this fight.

    ____________________

    *Geez, even that dope Gen. William Westmoreland was smart enough to know not to talk to “Rolling Stone”!

  128. Katz

    Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s recent brain explosion in “Rolling Stone” [!]* demonstrates the level of chaos and maladministration of the Afghanistan fiasco.

    I notice that Rudd has donned his metaphorical digger’s hat (he found it lying around Kirrabilli after Ratty was evicted), and intoned, “We propose to stay the course.”

    What is that course? Who is setting it? (Tell me it isn’t Obama and Gen. Stanley McChrystal). What does the destination look like so we won’t whoosh right past it?

    Time to withdraw the troops, Ruddster. We shouldn’t have a dog in this fight.

    ____________________

    *Geez, even that dope Gen. William Westmoreland was smart enough to know not to talk to “Rolling Stone”!

  129. Fran Barlow

    It is totally unreal Katz. As I said elsewhere, Rudd should have announced as soon as he had been elected that he wanted to “review” the case for continued participation in ISAF and then withdrawn them no later than the time that the troops came back from Iraq.

    Right now, the RSPT is a lot more popular than troops in Afghanistan and yet, it is not even an issue of debate as far as either of the major parties or the mass media is concerned. The position of 61% of Australian, according to the polls is left to a party with about 15% primary support to carry.

    That’s pretty hard to reconcile with the claims that we have a democratic polity.

  130. Fran Barlow

    It is totally unreal Katz. As I said elsewhere, Rudd should have announced as soon as he had been elected that he wanted to “review” the case for continued participation in ISAF and then withdrawn them no later than the time that the troops came back from Iraq.

    Right now, the RSPT is a lot more popular than troops in Afghanistan and yet, it is not even an issue of debate as far as either of the major parties or the mass media is concerned. The position of 61% of Australian, according to the polls is left to a party with about 15% primary support to carry.

    That’s pretty hard to reconcile with the claims that we have a democratic polity.

  131. Katz

    I’m not convinced that the beliefs of voters as expressed in opinion polls is the soundest basis for conducting foreign policy. If the Greens were to win government on the basis of their determination to withdraw troops from Afghanistan, then fair enough…

    No, my opposition to Australian military action in Afghanistan is based on the futility of the conflict. A golden rule is “if you can’t win the war, don’t start the war”. And if you inherit a war, as Rudd did, you disown it before it owns you.

    And further, as a non-member of NATO, Australia has no place at the table in discussions about strategy. Instead, Australia assumes its usual role as the Step’n’fetchits of international relations.

    Rudd needs to be reminded of the fate of John Gorton who was making his own “stay the course” speech in 1968 at the very moment that LBJ was pulling the plug on Vietnam. And later, McMahon had no idea that Nixon and Kissinger were conducting secret peace negotiations with the North Vietnamese.

    Stop allowing Australia to be the international Step’n’fetchit, Rudd!

  132. Katz

    I’m not convinced that the beliefs of voters as expressed in opinion polls is the soundest basis for conducting foreign policy. If the Greens were to win government on the basis of their determination to withdraw troops from Afghanistan, then fair enough…

    No, my opposition to Australian military action in Afghanistan is based on the futility of the conflict. A golden rule is “if you can’t win the war, don’t start the war”. And if you inherit a war, as Rudd did, you disown it before it owns you.

    And further, as a non-member of NATO, Australia has no place at the table in discussions about strategy. Instead, Australia assumes its usual role as the Step’n’fetchits of international relations.

    Rudd needs to be reminded of the fate of John Gorton who was making his own “stay the course” speech in 1968 at the very moment that LBJ was pulling the plug on Vietnam. And later, McMahon had no idea that Nixon and Kissinger were conducting secret peace negotiations with the North Vietnamese.

    Stop allowing Australia to be the international Step’n’fetchit, Rudd!

  133. Fran Barlow

    Katz said:

    I’m not convinced that the beliefs of voters as expressed in opinion polls is the soundest basis for conducting foreign policy.

    Nor I, but in this case we are talking about a very large number (61%) and we aren’t talking about something highly nuanced — e.g fine grained negotiations of where the continental shelf should be or fishing rights.

    We are talking about something quite simple that nearly everyone understands and which is literally a life and death issue for those implementing the policy — should Australian troops be there? Maybe there should be a referendum at the next election? Should a date within three months of this election for the full withdrawal of all Australian military personnel from Afghanistan be set by the government of the day? Surely 61% should at least get the question asked, now that we are entering our tenth year of occupation.

  134. Fran Barlow

    Katz said:

    I’m not convinced that the beliefs of voters as expressed in opinion polls is the soundest basis for conducting foreign policy.

    Nor I, but in this case we are talking about a very large number (61%) and we aren’t talking about something highly nuanced — e.g fine grained negotiations of where the continental shelf should be or fishing rights.

    We are talking about something quite simple that nearly everyone understands and which is literally a life and death issue for those implementing the policy — should Australian troops be there? Maybe there should be a referendum at the next election? Should a date within three months of this election for the full withdrawal of all Australian military personnel from Afghanistan be set by the government of the day? Surely 61% should at least get the question asked, now that we are entering our tenth year of occupation.