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81 responses to “Lazy Sunday”

  1. Russell

    Gardening done. Off to my brother’s for tea and cakes.

  2. Jacques de Molay

    Cleaning the place done now sitting down listening to Green Day’s Uno, Dos, Tre trilogy of albums and about to start reading Lydia Peever’s Pray Lied Eve short stories which can be downloaded for free on Amazon.

  3. David Irving (no relation)

    I just got home from planting out a heap of (summer-active) grass seedlings on the edge of the nanoforest. I caught sight of two of my euros which lifted my heart. The body of the paddock is covered in green grass (to mid-calf), and the saltbush is all looking fantastic.

  4. faustusnotes

    I had a tough Sunday, returning to an old save of Hearts of Iron 2. My Imperial Japanese army, having conquered the USA and all of the Pacific, is slogging it out in China after the Nationalist Chinese treacherously declared war on my peace-loving island. So today I returned to the frontlines, with the intention of fighting to a stalemate while building up a massive force of ICBMs with which to destroy Chinese industry. Between September 1950 and March 1951 I think I encircled and liquidated about 12 divisions of Chinese soldiers, laid waste to all their major towns twice, and nuked 10 divisions somewhere in Guiyang. Yet still they fight on! So after a break for food I will persist. I’ve expanded production of ICBMs to the extent that after dinner I will be able to wipe out China’s entire industrial capacity in one brutal night, rendering their government incapable of feeding the population. I predict collapse within 2 months. Then I can march triumphantly through the (twice-nuked) streets of Chongching, finally triumphant in establishing the Greater Asian Co-prosperity Sphere. I probably won’t put the Chinese Bureau of the Co-prosperity Sphere anywhere in Sichuan province, since it’s basically a smouldering crater the size of a small country. But if you want to make an omelette …

    I will then repeat the tactic on the UK, last bastion of colonialism, which is trapped in a bitter battle with Germany. I don’t know who’s in charge over there but it’s 1951 and they still haven’t invaded Russia, so I guess it ain’t the mustachioed chap! Anyway, I expect to be in Chongching by bedtime.

  5. tigtog

    Dearly beloved and I began a new Sunday tradition today – he picked out a wine from our racks and we walked along King St in Newtown until we found a restaurant that (a) had a BYO license (b) we hadn’t tried yet and (c) had a cuisine that matched the wine.

    Today we had Japanese (with a Clare Valley riesling), and it was particularly delicious. We don’t plan to repeat this *every* Sunday, but at least once a month seems doable.

  6. Casey

    Fifty years since the ‘I have a dream’ speech. I was in a little pub in Balmain eating salmon, spinach and pineapple, drinking a gin, peach liqueur and pomegranate type sangria on what is probably the beginning of a blistering summer, wishing so very hard that I could have experienced the sort of sense of hope that manifested in the 60s, knowing that in 2013 boys like Trayvon Martin can still be shot for the colour of their skin, thinking that King’s dream is still delayed, immanent but not yet arrived, not yet here. After some moments, stirred by hope and sangria, my friend said to me “I think that Labor will get in”. ‘Why?’ I said ‘Why? You are the only one who thinks that’ ‘Because’, she said, ‘Old Labor will rise in people’s hearts and come election day people will not be able to bring themselves to vote for Abbott.’

    I do hope that happens, even if I happen to call Kevin Draco. Of course from alcohol and lofty speeches of another time, hope does spring eternal but it would be marvellous if that happened, if Australia couldn’t follow through and actually not make him PM because it suddenly develops nausea in the ballot box.

    Then I bought a book called Zealot by an academic called Reza Aslan about the historical Jesus. Lovely day.

  7. zoot

    Casey, having reached (nominally anyway) adulthood during the late sixties I can tell you the sense of hope was tangible; there was “Revolution in the air”. It made Whitlam’s election almost inevitable.
    They were great days.
    I too live in hope of the electorate baulking at Abbott PM, if only to see his head explode.

  8. Casey

    I would have loved to have reached adulthood in 1969 too Zoot. But a second best would indeed be Abbott’s head exploding. That would be wonderful.

  9. Terangeree

    Mowed lawn.

    Master 11 (now suddenly interested in electronics) set forth on his first solo excursion in soldering, and was successful in making a machine that blinks two LEDs on and off.

    Take-away fish and chips for dinner, followed by a surreptitious “campfire” (and ‘romantic date’ with the bride) in our inner-suburban back garden as an attempt at removing a particularly stubborn stump from the garden’s (pre-married Terangeree) period as a feral jungle of noxious weeds.

    FN: was that a wise thing to do, lobbing nuclear bombs thither and yon over Sichuan, considering the prevailing winds?

  10. Graham Bell

    [email protected]: What a good idea – don’t you feel sorry for the Rich missing out on the fun?
    [email protected]: Watch out for the Mexican-Brazilian alliance now that CostaRica has finally broken off diplomatic relations with your puppet Manshukoku.
    zoot and Casey: They were indeed days of great hope – then the bright, energetic young people got stoned and so let old hoodlums and their young fogeys get an iron grip back on everything.

  11. Russell

    “I would have loved to have reached adulthood in 1969”

    If that means turning 21 in 1969 … you probably would have already been married and had a baby by then. The die was cast early in them pre-pill days.

  12. faustusnotes

    Graham Bell: I’m onto that. I had to wipe out a few US holdouts in latin America but they’re basically my friends now. Hunting down teh US “high” command (to Iceland) took six months (and a declaration of war against Portugal so I could capture the Azores) but finally I got them.

  13. Casey

    No way. At least, not before I went here.

  14. Russell

    Well it’s too late now! My sister had a boyfriend who had just come back from SF at that time and gave me various psychedelic mementos, and I just imagined I would soon be there. But it took another 45 years, until last summer I found myself ensconced in a B&B on the corner of Haight and Laguna … and I can report that the summer of love was long gone.

  15. jules


    I was born in 1969. My parents were married that year. in Hobart. AFAIK it was the first catholic mixed marriage in Tassie. Might be the first mixed marriage anywhere in the state – that was recognised anyway. (i’m sure plenty weren’t)

    When Obama was elected I asked mum if she would have thought in her wildest dreams, back when i was born, a black person might be elected President of the US before I was 40. She said it was inconceivable at the time.

    To me Obama is a massive let down. Just another warmongering corporate stooge like the rest of them.

    Never the less, in under 50 years the idea of a black person leading the US and getting re-elected went from unthinkable to reality. Hope is a funny thing – and your friend might just be right. Tony Abbott may yet go down in history as Australia’s most successful opposition leader, twice.

    I have a dream…

  16. paul walter

    They are “Days of Future Past”.
    I grew up during the era and think the period from early last decade to maybe a couple of years ago, represents the same gravitation defying triumph
    of hope over reason that ripened and deteriorated in the late sixties, then finally came down with a thud in the hangover ‘seventies.
    As ever, the centrist politicians sided with the establishment, despite it again being unmasked in all its misanthropic, illogical, lunatic and destructive ugliness.

  17. Paul Norton

    Reaching adulthood in 1969 meant, for males, being of an age to be conscripted to the Vietnam War and anxiously reading the papers when you were about to turn 18 to find out whether or not your birth date had been drawn in the national service ballot. My brother is of that generation and while he had a medical exemption from military service, one of his friends pleaded conscientious objection while another did the tour of duty. All three attended the first Vietnam Moratorium rally in Melbourne in 1970 and were on the front cover photo of Jim Cairns’ book about the Moratorium campaign.

  18. Graham Bell

    Jules @15:
    Hey, fair go! What about Jesse Jackson? One of the greatest presidents America never had. Imagine: an end to real poverty in the US with jobs for all in revitalized small businesses, no Cold War, Saddam Hussien well-behaved, friendly relations with Cuba and Iran, full-on cheap renewable power, George Bush and his accomplices in the slammer, universal health care, NASA on Mars, drug dealers angry, KKK doing charity work …. not bad for the first term of America’s first Black president. Amazing that the Yanks took the wrong turn and failed to make him president when they had the chance.

  19. Su

    Gwen Ifill has been doing a series of interviews marking the 50th anniversary of The March on Washington. One of her themes has been the deliberate exclusion of women speakers and exclusion of women from central organising committee roles. At one point women discussed picketing the march to protest the sexism of MLK and others, instead these women became the vanguard of second wave feminism, but their roles have so frequently been ignored as they were women of colour. Some great interviews, one here: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nation/july-dec13/march_08-14.html.

  20. jules

    GB – part of my point is Jesse Jackson didn’t get elected. But 88 – that would have been 25 years ago, 25 after King’s speech

    I agree that it is a bit of a pity. He would have been an interesting candidate, especially if he had run against Bush 1 in ’88. The world, and the US especially, could be a very different place if Jackson had been elected in ’88.

    i think Jackson might have actually made a real difference to the lives of non whites worldwide, especially black people in the US. One Obama has failed to make. Someone mentioned Trayvon Martin before, but I could list plenty of non white people killed in dodgy circumstances since Obama was first elected. It will be three years this coming Friday since John T Williams was murdered in cold blood by Seattle cop Ian Birk, for crossing a road while not white.

    Right wing conspiracy theorists patiently wait for marshall law to come knocking, but in ghettos across the US poor black populations are effectively under martial law and at war with themselves and the state. There are tens of thousands of no knock paramilitary raids every year in the states, primarily aimed at poor young black people, and its very difficult to find the actual figures of how many people are killed.

    If you look at the incarceration rates in the US there is a disturbing trend. Former slave states dominate the lists of highest rates of incarceration and they engage in prisoner trading for cheap work contracts using private and public prison networks. There are disproportionate rates of incarceration – for many people slavery effectively still exists and they no chance of release. If Jackson had won in ’88 I doubt this situation would exist.

    The US has probably changed since King and Jackson, but I think its only in the same way South Africa has. These days the discrimination isn’t based on race, just access to, and control of resources. The less you have the more you’ll suffer. There’s a big racial element in that distribution but it isn’t the driving force it once was. There is economic apartheid across the planet.

  21. jules

    Back on topic – i watched Man on Wire last night.

    What a wild story.

  22. Ootz

    Just back from a long weekend with music, art, camping and fire in deep Far North rainforest. Happy to report that the spirit of the 60′ has survived up here in a somewhat evolved form over the two or so generations of hippiedom. Still wholesome food, yoga in the morning (some continued on with what they went into the night) searching discussion, sharing experiences and insights, spontaneous outbreaks of creativity in various forms and lots of hugs. We had a stage, with congas on one end and Irish harp on the other, which made for some interesting late night jamming. The afternoon jam was a waste after some magic chocolate fudge did the rounds. Was very much encouraged when I started that Jack Bruce bassline in Sunshine of your Love, some of the kids recognised it and one joined in on a keyboard (pity the drummer(s) did not have Ginger’s african flair). Oh yes, the spirit of the sixties has a refuge up here and in many ways new seeds have been sowed this weekend. We shall see how the new generation will bear up with carrying the spirit when they start to pay their due to the machine.

    DI (nr), good to see the slab is down in your corner of paradise. And the reveg trees look like they settled in well, good on you. Amazing what emerging habitat brings in. Apart from the Euros, you must have noticed an increase in bird diversity? I can’t comment on your blog for some reason, but always look out how you are progressing on there.

  23. jungney

    Ootz: thank heavens for old hippies then. Did you make the adulterated chocolate?

    I have only this day escaped from the madness of San Fran. I didn’t have the heart to go the Haight Ashbury after spending the prior day dodging the deranged homeless in the Mission districts amid the ever present reek of stale urine.

    I managed to photograph Half Dome by the light of the full moon in Yosemite.

  24. Casey

    Su, I found that video incredibly interesting and not just because of the way women were not represented. The revelation that the MLK speech only came to resonate profoundly with people after his death and from the moment of his death became a symbolic moment which heralded profound structural changes is an eye opener.

    I find it interesting because, as you know, here in Australia Helen Razer is currently heading up the charge against rainbow crossings and some such as meaningless acts of symbolism which do nothing to undo structural inequity. So, to hear of the list of economic demands that the organisers of the march actually had is interesting, as it is to hear that the March’s radical roots (socialist in origin) have been lost in the romance of the MLK speech. You can understand the arguments both for and against the power of symbolism in the MLK speech. For symbolism because although the romance of that speech was stripped of all the socialist ideology which underpinned its lofty ideals, it is that speech which interpellated white culture, as did Rosa Park’s moment of protest when she refused to give up her seat, and it was these sorts of moments which brought about structural change in American culture, even if that happened after MLKs death. As many African Americans in public life will tell you, they are able to be so visible in public life because of these sorts of moments like the MLK speech. Things did change structurally, and that became at its most visible when Obama was elected (whatever sort of President he is is besides the point).

    But it is also to understand the argument against symbolism because the depoliticisation that is necessary for that speech to have universal appeal, also ensures that structural inequity has been allowed to continue while people like me wax lyrical about a time that never really was. That inequality is also class based of course. So in a way, white culture is served by powerful moments emptied of their demands for structural change because they can celebrate the sentiment without ceding any ground whatsoever in creating real equality.

    That said, ultimately symbolism is important, in my view, and does work.
    The National Apology was a symbolic moment. Did it change anything? Not much. It was only one of very many recommendations of Bringing them Home that was implemented. What did it mean to the stolen generations? To some, a lot. It was a reckoning. An acknowledgement of loss. What did it mean to non Aboriginal Australians? To a lot of us it was the beginning of reparations long overdue. It is not enough though. Yet I truly believe this symbolic moment is one of many moments which, after the Liberal years of course, will roll into deep structural change. It happens, it just takes time and lots of these sorts of moments which encourage dominant groups to cede their own power in pursuit of justice and equality and this then unravels the structural inequities. It happens, just not overnight. And these symbolic moments, they prepare the way for change.

  25. Russell

    “after spending the prior day dodging the deranged homeless in the Mission districts amid the ever present reek of stale urine”

    Clearly someone has chosen the wrong travel guide. I strolled down there from my perch at The Parsonage on Haight and had coffee and cake at Tartine and an ice-cream from Bi-Rite , bought a St Christopher medal at an old church and strolled out. Perfectly satisfactory hour.

  26. Russell

    “powerful moments emptied of their demands for structural change because they can celebrate the sentiment without ceding any ground whatsoever in creating real equality”

    Being familiar with that, and so being able to identify it, is one of the few benefits of being raised Catholic, don’t ya think?

  27. Su

    Thanks Casey, framing it in that way, as the double edge of symbolism helps me order some unformed feelpinions I’ve been nurturing about political speech vs action, grand gesture vs worker bee, not that those things are opposed, it’s just shorthand.

  28. David Irving (no relation)

    Hi, Ootz. I’ll have a look at what the vanity blog is doing with comments – I can’t imagine why you’d be prevented.

    As to the bird life, I’m not sure. I saw a little honey-eater (I think – it was black and yellow, anyway) in a wattle on Sunday when I was planting out the seedlings, and there have always been magpies and rosellas. The quail have been a bit thin on the ground lately, though. I think the fox may have eaten a lot of them.

  29. Casey

    No worries, to me symbolic moments as a collection can work towards real change in a way that Razer is just dismissing. It’s complex and there are competing interests in symbolism but that’s not to say structural change does not eventually come along anyway.

    Also Russell, symbols are beautiful. There are great aesthetics to the Catholic faith. I know it’s not empty of meaning to those who are the faith’s followers. It’s not empty of meaning to me either though I don’t go to that church. But it’s my cultural inheritance, as familiar to me as my own body. It taught me to care for the stranger in our midst. Of course Freud taught me I am the stranger in our midst. Fracki me, that was an eye opener. See, I reckon all things work together, that’s the trick, take the best from each inheritance and have a healthy respect for supernatural creatures. That’s my motto.

  30. Rocky

    Cadet, did you see Father Bob on The Observer Effect last night? He had a great saying. “Who cares, wins”.

    Ootz, above the afternoon you describe sounds like my idea of hell. You see, I was a punk in the ’70s and we hated hippies precisely because they say around eating magic chocolate fudge, hugging and exchanging profound thoughts. The reaction to hippiedom for punks is interesting. It happened so quickly. I still can’t stand any of that hippieshit.

  31. Rocky

    *Casey*. I meant Casey.

  32. Casey

    You know, I’m liking Cadet.

  33. Rocky

    Use it if you want.

  34. Su

    Vivian to Ootz’s Neil?

  35. Rocky

    That’s right, Su.

  36. Su

    I was a teenager in the drear decade the 80s, Goth was about as excitement as it got, ie not at all. I did once live in a share flat that was easily as filthy as Vivian’s

  37. alfred venison

    anyone who was punk in the 70s should remember the palm sunday marches: symbolic, international, cumulative. i wonder if helen razor does. protest has been normalised in today’s mediated world, you need more than a situationist stunt to have an effect today. -a.v.

  38. Graham Bell

    Su @ 19:
    Glad you mentioned that airbrushed-out bit of American history.
    If ever Gwen Ifill leaves PBS she is welcome to do real news interviews on Australia TV and raise the standard of it by a few orders of magnitude.

    Jules @ 20:
    Thanks. And the losers running and ruining American are still scared of highly skilled Black war veterans coming home – with political and social ambitions.

  39. Ootz

    Goodness gracious me jungney, I had nothing to do with the chocolate fudge. If I need to get out of it I prefer meditation or being creative. I have only come to the scented-cane since onset of my chronic pain and take it strictly for that purpose only, as excessive use actually curbs it’s effectiveness for that purpose. It seems most of the weed around nowadays is either zombie hydro or moldy bush weed, I wont touch anything bar my own. My medication is specially breed and grown to create the right combination of THCs to get the required effect and still be functional. I also have to have regular breaks, whence I become more unstable, tense and at times lose verbal fluidity due to the mental and physical stress of pain. Further, processing and storage methods are also extremely important as the desired THC components for pain relief are more fragile or unstable and tend to degrade first. Finally, reminded by faustusnotes (then sg) awhile ago about the harmful effects of inhaling smoke, I invested in a vaporiser which has the added benefit of temperature regulation. This gives even better control, as the desired THCs will get released in lower temperatures. I do not identify myself as a typical hippie, nor do they see me, or themselves for that matter, as such. The closest I have come to be a hippie is reading Walden and Peter van der Post in the back of a VW van during my years in Africa and venturing from the bottom to the top of South Asia on any conceivable mode of transport available, notably without doing drugs apart from some local toddy. I am just comfortable around hippies, since I have not the stomach nor energy to drink a bottle of Johnny Walker and do all that head banging stuff anymore. And for crying out loud, even Geezer Butler, godfather of heavy metal, wore hippie dresses, is a peacenik and vegan.

  40. Su

    Is the imprimatur of this Mr Geezer supposed to sway us to look more favourably upon hippies, cos it’s having the opposite effect. ; )

    If fn nukes everything pre 1960 the world may just escape heavy metal entirely. Ooh look at me, I think that counts as a double troll with pike.

    The memory of Biff quoting Dorothy Dunnett’s “music, the knife without a hilt” has been circling lazily around my head like a bumblebee, making me wonder whether the Dreijers are Dunnett fans, when holymoly I read the lyrics to You take my breath away, and it’s either direct inspiration, or, like the evolution of the eye, apt metaphors will just keep being reinvented. Put away those arpeggios now and embrace steelpan Synth! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r2CpcLvc90M&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dr2CpcLvc90M

  41. j_p_z

    Ah, the exquisite pleasures of listening to the clueless ignorant inanity of leftists.* Since y’all seem to have absolutely no idea what you sound like to sane people (I’ll remind you that Zenger’s First Law of Politics is, Leftists don’t know what they sound like to rational people), you’ll never ever know how funny this all is. If leftists didn’t exist, what would I do for comedic entertainment?

    * — NB: just because I think leftists are ridiculous, you shouldn’t infer that I’m somehow a “rightist” or a “conservative”. I don’t even think I have a clear understanding of what those words might mean. I’m simply anti-insanity and anti-stupid… which in practical terms turns out to mean both anti-leftist and anti-“rightist” (whatever the hell that means; it’s simply that leftism is easier to identify).

    There doesn’t seem to be a political party called the Non-Stupid (But Not Necessarily All That Smart, Simply Non-Stupid in a Basic Sort of Way) Sane (Same Rules Apply) Party, and anyway I’m not much of a joiner, so, I guess I’m just sh#t out of luck, so, whaddaya gonna do.

  42. alfred venison

    this is a chill out zone, dude, if you really want to know what leftists say try the election thread. -a.v.

  43. Casey

    Just in case youse are wondering, it wasn’t me wot conjured him back. He got through the dimensions all by himself, though God knows I put up enough charms to stop five semi trailers with Tony Abbotts in them. Yet here he is, just like old times, raving like a loony about the inanity of leftists and declaring himself anti-stupid whilst making his declarations about the ridiculousness of leftists on a leftist blog. Yeah. Ah yes, ladies, gentlefolk: it’s like the glory days of the blog are back.

  44. Rocky

    I don’t know, or care, whether you’re left, right, or off the planet entirely, jpz. But, I do know bad manners when they start yelling in my face. As has been pointed out, there are more appropriate threads where you can indulge in your ignorant, fact free raves. Lazy Sunday is a politics free zone.

  45. j_p_z

    [Moderator note: Lazy Sunday posts have long been designated a stoush-free zone, japerz. We'll take your response to Overflow (where it belongs) on your behalf. ~ mod team.]

  46. jungney

    Ootz: van der Post! Peter Pinney too I daresay. I blame both the former as well as Kerouac for my misadventures from the prawn trawlers of the Gulf to other places further afield.

    As to medicinal herbs – California is moving that way as rapidly as poss, it seems to me, with one of the local papers featuring two full pages of advertisements offering rapid registration for medical prescription. CNN also recently featured a two hour doco made by a converted anti-‘devils weed’ campaigner who now convincingly advocates further legalization.

  47. paul burns

    Still watching West Wing

  48. Graham Bell

    Paul Burns (and j-p-z, if you are around):
    Have just finished reading World War Z , a truly remarkable book. Max Brooks must be a very observant and patient author. Shan’t bother to watch the film after having read Heinlein’s Starship Troopers and then seeing how Hollywood can stuff it up (the title was the same in both though).

  49. Ootz

    Make that Laurens van der Post Jungney, war hero, conservationist, down to earth person, author and humanist. Privileged to have read his The Lost World of the Kalahari while spending some time in that place and have met some of these amazing few Bushmen left, the Aboriginals of Southern Africa. Was also privileged to have read Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi’s autobiography while about Durban. At the same time Steve Biko, student leader who coined ‘black is beautiful’ and of Cry Freedom fame got arrested in Port Elizabeth, interrogated, severely beaten, in a coma got driven to a prison in Pretoria where he died shortly after on September 12 in 1977. A crucial moment where the fissures started to crack open within the Apartheid structure almost overnight. Biko is perhaps not as well known as MLK but deserves an honorable mention now and then in relation to major structural changes, inequities and privilege.

    Su, could I make up for Mr Geezer . Inspired by an outstanding rendition by a female singer with kind of a Dionne Warwick voice on the weekend of an Otis Redding song he recorded just before he died in that tragic air crash . May I present Sitting On The Dock Of The Bay

  50. faustusnotes

    Starship Troopers was vastly better than the book. Can’t say the same for World War Z. There’s a review on my blog if you’re interested Graham – I actually recommend it.

    I loved World War Z. Fascinating read.

  51. Ootz

    People like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Stephen Biko who have put their life on the line for common decency and rights ought to be more celebrated. Here is a good blog post done on last years remembrance day of Stephen’s death. Peter Gabriel’s tribute in there is well worth watching and listen to.

  52. Graham Bell

    [email protected]: Where’s your blog?

  53. jules

    Su what 80s were you in? For every ken Done print, Wham poster or private school poser listening to the Mission or waxing on about some dead wanker from manchester there was Husker Du, Psytv, live music in melbourne, butthole surfers, skinny puppy, Willian Gibson …. i spit on your gravy etc

    Towards the end there were raves, (not doofs) and Ecstacy and a whole new culture brewing up.

    Ootz – its bit hard to have anything other than moldy bush weed given how wet its been in the last 3 years…

    Anyway i know this guy who makes tictures and uses them in an e cig.

    Its mildly effective for getting out of it, but seems to be much better for pain management etc etc as you can have tiny tokes on an e cig at any time without the damage of smoking, and you don’t need to have a dose that may have other effects. He makes the tinctures using propylene glycol which is an allegedly safe food additive. E cigs are 20 or 30 bucks online. The glycol is probably under 100. i think he uses it at a ratio of 1 g weed to 1 ml tincture…

    I’m not sure of the full details – whether he uses ethanol and evaporates it or not, and how long it steeps for but could find out by next sunday if you’re interested. I actually had a go on his e cig – for purely recreational, I mean informational purposes of course, and had to smoke it like a joint to have a similar effect. For someone who uses it medicinally I think the dose is way lower and one or two tiny tokes at a time might even suffice. It certainly seems like the way to go for medical use, especially if you are not into its recreational side effects.

  54. Helen

    90s…Moodists, Laughing Clowns, Go Betweens, the Crystal Ballroom, Little Bands, a burgeoning culture of stand up comedy, cabaret and sketch shows…

  55. Helen

    …I mean, 80s. D’oh!

  56. Chris

    fn @ 51 – I’ve never read the book nor seen the movie. But there’s a venn diagram which describes the overlap between the two:


  57. faustusnotes

    I think that’s unfair, Chris. The movie had nothing “in common” with the book but it did draw on some important ideas and concepts from the book that gave it “a commonality” with the book. They should have put the subtitle “Based on actual events” or something to make that clear!

  58. Ootz

    [email protected], my experience with oral administration is not satisfactory. It is difficult to maintain accurate dosage due mainly to the long delay in onset of effect due to ‘patchy’ and slow absorbation. Also, same material can have quite different effects when ingested rather than inhaled, usually more of a body stone and extra munchies. However, I belief they have developed an under the tongue spray in UK called Sativex. Under the tongue administration very likely would enable fast uptake and thus have similar effect to inhaling. Not sure what you mean with E cigs, never came across any of them. As mentioned above, I use a vaporiser which does heat the material rather than burn. Further, the temperature is adjustable, which is crucial to release the desired combination of cannabinoids, to get the relaxed and uplifting effect rather than being out of it. My pain is lactic acid build up from my muscle spasms as well as joint pain from inflammations. It feels like you’d have run a marathon the previous day, everyday, sometimes for months. Pain is one thing, chronic pain another. In that context, Cannabis has a medical and ‘recreational’ effect, as it brings out the remnants of my old self. It enables me to be the active and switched-on person I used to be, and to amongst other things, design and owner build our energy efficient house, have a self sufficient garden, do most of the domestic work and occasionally do volunteer work over the years. The problem is, there is still much we do not know and understand about Cannaboids and their physiological and psychological effects on humans and it is important to note that people respond different to same material. Thus, we are looking at a largely unknown and very complex situation which is dealt with by demonising the plant.

    I use Cannabis for two different purposes, to deal with the muscle spasms and pain as well as to help with sleep when my body clock is out of sync, which is often another symptom of cfs/me. Roughly speaking the relaxing and pain masking active components evaporate at lower temperatures, those which induce sleep at higher temperature. Over time I have come to the conclusion, that the former components degrade faster, depending on drying and storage method, most are gone after about 3 month (hence my oblique comment re mouldy weed). In freezer they last about 10 month to a year. However, the body stone and sleep inducing components last much longer. Hydronically produced plant material contains far too much salt and other byproducts, since its predominant presence in inorganic fertiliser, which tends to pump up the cells with with the saline solution they are exposed to and so forth. Hence hydro-produce generally has the look and taste of a bodybuilder, and according to my theory, have different constitution of cannaboid complex and effect thereof on humans. Unfortunately industrial hydro is also breed and grown for biggest bang per buck, akin to overproof moonshine without the methanol removed, which does main damage mentally, physical, socially and inhibits for a mature culture to evolve to deal with the drug in a more enlightened fashion.

    I have talked with my doc and psychologist about ‘my habit’ and we worked through the risk factors, which included the criminal aspect of it. I do not drive nor engage in similar activities for set periods depending on dosage for safety reasons, just like we should do with alcohol. I am not worried about being caught with growing and using Cannabis the first time. The problem is, that if I get caught a second time, very likely the legal repercussions would be severe. So I wouldn’t be able to breed and grow my own high quality and effective medication anymore and, since there is no alternative legal medical product available, such as Sativex, I’d be stuffed and a burden to society. This is the reason I am coming out on this. There is so much mis-information and understanding on this issue, which I think is the main reason why we are not moving in the direction many governments increasingly are taking elsewhere.

    Sorry, this is probably the wrong thread for my coming out and long rant. So mods if it is inapproriate please remove it. However, since the topic came up, I feel obliged to clarify my position on it. I have done my research and conducted systematic experiments with the help of my diverse professional background, though I do not profess to know all about Cannabis. However, live in hope, that one day we can have a serious discussion about it, so as a society we can develop an appropriate adult relationship with that much maligned herb.

  59. Fran Barlow

    Seeing no weekly whimsy thread … and being a lover of words, I thought I’d post this whimsical list of words that should exist; (HT BW who posted this in PB today). The rule was to change or add a phoneme of/to an existing word to make a new term incorporating the lexical content of the old word and with the morph.

    1. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject financially impotent for an indefinite period of time.

    2. Ignoranus: A person who’s both stupid and an asshole.

    3. Intaxicaton: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with.

    4. Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly.

    5. Bozone ( n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.

    6. Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of getting laid.

    7. Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high

    8. Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn’t get it.

    9. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.

    10. Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.)

    11. Karmageddon: It’s like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it’s like, a serious bummer.

    12. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day consuming only things that are good for you.

    13. Glibido: All talk and no action.

    14. Dopeler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.

    15. Arachnoleptic Fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you’ve accidentally walked through a spider web.

    16. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito, that gets into your bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out.

    17. Caterpallor ( n.): The colour you turn after finding half a worm in the fruit you’re eating.

    I loved #11 but #10 was also very clever.

  60. jules

    Ootz – an e cig or an electronic cigarette is a vaporiser of sorts. It was developed as a smokeless form of nicotine ingestion. I have only seen one type, but according to wikipedia the different models seem pretty similar.

    They use a liquid – usually propylene glycol – that has flavours and/or nicotine in solution. I know someone who made a tincture using glycol and cannabis instead of the other stuff. The e cig then functions as a portable vaporiser the size of a pen.

    I totally get where you are coming from. I live near nimbin, so cannabis is a big part of the local culture, and the whole medicinal side of its use is … well it was a bit of a joke at first but its really come into its own as a genuine thing of substance. I remember seeing a ref to a study of cannabis use in Jamaica, among women, not men. It was very different.

    There was little recreational use, but a tradition of medicinal use that involved alot of complicated folk chemistry based on some the stuff you are talking about – activating different cannabinoids (from different strains and at different maturity) at different temps for a variety of effects. Mostly using tinctures and creams or poultices iirc. Alot of this culture developed from the Indians who were stolen from India back in the 1800s and early 1900s. It seems that these days this old folk stuff is taken into account along with what modern research there is available. 10 years ago it was more about having an excuse to smoke a spliff.

    Its ridiculous that the powerful medicinal aspects of cannabis use are never explored because of some puritanical bullshit about people not being allowed to have a good time. And totally unsane (not a typo) that people who take responsibility for their own health and can thereby contribute to society have to live with the stress of being branded a criminal if they get caught.

    If i use cannabis its for fun, mostly. I can definitely attest to its pain relieving qualities tho, and as i get older I appreciate that a lot more than getting high. Yes i agree some people shouldn’t use it, and some forms of use – locking yourself in a room and smoking 100 bongs a day for example – are unhealthy on their own for otherwise healthy people, that behaviour is obviously masking another problem. But the same goes for alcohol, some people shouldn’t use it at all, and others use it in incredibly unhealthy ways to mask other issues. On balance unhealthy cannabis use appears to cause less damage than unhealthy use of booze.

    We can move this thread to the overflow thread if anyone wants to. I used my friends e cig tincture on the weekend so technically we’re still on topic, but probably only just.

  61. Russell

    Thanks a lot Fran. Excellent.

    (Fran probably ran screaming from LP when she read “Labor supporters will have nothing to be pissed off with each other with?”)

  62. Casey

    Oh shutup Russell, I mean really.

  63. Casey



  64. Casey

    16. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito, that gets into your bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out.


  65. Russell

    Tch, tch. He’s not even our leader, yet, and already we’re telling each other to shut up. As someone said, you change the government, you change the country ….

  66. Fran Barlow


    Fran probably ran screaming from LP when she read “Labor supporters will have nothing to be pissed off with each other with?”

    So glad I missed it …

  67. Tim Macknay

    Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn’t get it.


    I always understood this to mean the time delay between the delivery of a witty remark and the laughter of a slow-witted listener.

  68. Jess

    Ooh, I have a whimsy post which I had stashed away as well: http://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/?paged=8

    I would never have thought that someone would write so much about suits in movies.

    [Mod ~ new Whimsy thread over here]

  69. su

    I was in rural QLD, Jules and Helen. 4TO territory, the ghastly incubator of Kyle Sandilands . Nuff said. I didn’t even hear of Husker Du until the 90s, which themselves were a lacuna of PND and childrearing hassles. I climbed out in 2003. In Melbourne for my birthday this year though, ecstatic I am.

  70. su

    And happy birthday Tigtog, I hope cakes and ale are the order of the day.

  71. Helen

    Su, if you had been in Brisbane you’d have been in the cradle of civilisation! The Saints, go Betweens and Laughing Clowns came from there.

  72. su

    When I finally got there my neighbours were huge go-betweens fans, Helen. This is sacreligious but there are some great Australian bands and performers that I can’t listen to, it reminds me too much of the depressing bits of rural life, the Go-Betweens, Paul Kelly and The Bad Seeds all fall foul of nasty associations I think, I like Rowland Howard though.

  73. Graham Bell

    Belated Happy Birthday, tigtog, and a hundred more! 🙂

  74. jules

    Many happy returns tigtog

    su one thing about missing out on music when it came out is discovering it later in life.

  75. alfred venison

    speaking of pot, recently pot in high places has been in the news in canada.

    justin trudeau, son of pierre & margaret, and currently leader of the canadian liberal party, has admitted to smoking pot since he’s been in parliament (2007) at dinner parties, it goes around & he’s inhaled some.

    the mayor of toronto, mr rob ford, subject earlier in the year to unsubstantiated rumours in the gutter press that he uses cack cocaine, has said he’s “smoked a lot”.

    two recent polls by different companies have found that a majority of canadians, across all generations, regions and political persuasions support the legalisation or decriminalisation of pot, and only pot.

    while pm harper who says he never smoked pot wants to build more prisons. -a.v.

  76. jules

    Wasn’t Rob Ford a former drug dealer?

    Wasn’t he recently videoed smoking crack and the person responsible for the video has since disappeared?

    Or are they just baseless rumours?

  77. Graham Bell

    Folks, I’ve never been keen on non-tobacco smokes and recreational chemicals at all ever since I had to spend several weeks in a “safe(???)” US Army base where everyone was stoned or stoked. How the blazes we weren’t overrun and wiped out is beyond me; every night, there was nobody on the perimeter who wasn’t away with the fairies. Later in life, I had the delights and joys of working near a bloke who was operating heavy machinery whilst being off the planet; we all had near misses with him until he was sacked – after destroying a machine worth in the 6-figure range. Does that make me unreasonable?

  78. jules

    Its completely unreasonable to operate heavy machinery under the influence of anything isn’t it? tho to be honest i’d rather be around someone who used pot regularly and was out of it than anything else including alcohol. And some of the most dangerous people i’ve worked with weren’t under the influence of anything, (including forethought or any kind of thought,)

  79. Graham Bell

    Jules @ 79: Definitely agree about alcohol too. Wish the Police would take their RBT gear into the board-rooms and Parliaments of Australia (sadly, fat chance that will ever happen though).

  80. alfred venison

    hi Jules. sorry i didn’t reply earlier but this thread was blocked at my work because of the word marijuana within. i don’t know quite what to make of the rob ford accusations. its been a while since they were made and they are no longer front page, the paper hasn’t apologised and he’s still mayor. today’s news is that pm harper is prepared to consider amending the law to allow police to issue tickets for possession, like speeding. last month a convention of canadian police chiefs passed a resolution urging the gov’t to do just that. more politicians have come out (or is that “oot”). the premier of ontario said she did at uni and the premier of nova scotia says he did it at uni in the 70s. unfortunately for me my favourite conservative premier, alison redford of alberta, disagrees with the police chiefs and called it a gateway drug. ah, come on, alison! oh well, can’t win them all, but i think the tide is slowly turning. and my final bother: potheads don’t smash people with beer glasses or king hit strangers from behind. -a.v.